How's this for a house rule??

Hey everybody,

I'm a long time lurker, but this is my first post. Just wanted to say how beneficial i've found this site in general.

I know no one likes bad beat stories, but i felt compared to share this one. Fortunately, it happened to my friend and not to me.

Casino Niagara in Niagara Falls Canada. Game is 1/2 NL.

Long story short my friend paired the board on the river to make is full house and the villian had a king high flush (NOT A STRAIGHT FLUSH). My friend, flipped over his cards revealing his hand and turned to grab a drink from the waitress that had been patiently waiting for his hand to finish. When he looked back the dealer had raked the pot to the player with the flush. Obviously, my friend was not impressed and called the floor over. They informed him that it was the player's responsibility to ensure the pot gets raked to the proper player and once the chips have been distributed thats final. He was upset, and very politely asked the guy to split the pot or just give him his money back. This "gentlemen" decided that the $500 pot was that important and left right away. Just wondering if this is a normal house rule as I have never heard of it. Thanks.

[coffeecrazy1]

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Hey everybody,

I'm a long time lurker, but this is my first post. Just wanted to say how beneficial i've found this site in general.

I know no one likes bad beat stories, but i felt compared to share this one. Fortunately, it happened to my friend and not to me.

Casino Niagara in Niagara Falls Canada. Game is 1/2 NL.

Long story short my friend paired the board on the river to make is full house and the villian had a king high flush (NOT A STRAIGHT FLUSH). My friend, flipped over his cards revealing his hand and turned to grab a drink from the waitress that had been patiently waiting for his hand to finish. When he looked back the dealer had raked the pot to the player with the flush. Obviously, my friend was not impressed and called the floor over. They informed him that it was the player's responsibility to ensure the pot gets raked to the proper player and once the chips have been distributed thats final. He was upset, and very politely asked the guy to split the pot or just give him his money back. This "gentlemen" decided that the $500 pot was that important and left right away. Just wondering if this is a normal house rule as I have never heard of it. Thanks.

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Well...most places I play in would be concerned with whether or not your buddy tabled the hand. If he did, then the pot should go to him, regardless of how he reads it. So...no, not a typical house rule.

That said, what the villain did afterward was shady, but irrelevant.

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Hey everybody,

I'm a long time lurker, but this is my first post. Just wanted to say how beneficial i've found this site in general.

I know no one likes bad beat stories, but i felt compared to share this one. Fortunately, it happened to my friend and not to me.

Casino Niagara in Niagara Falls Canada. Game is 1/2 NL.

Long story short my friend paired the board on the river to make is full house and the villian had a king high flush (NOT A STRAIGHT FLUSH). My friend, flipped over his cards revealing his hand and turned to grab a drink from the waitress that had been patiently waiting for his hand to finish. When he looked back the dealer had raked the pot to the player with the flush. Obviously, my friend was not impressed and called the floor over. They informed him that it was the player's responsibility to ensure the pot gets raked to the proper player and once the chips have been distributed thats final. He was upset, and very politely asked the guy to split the pot or just give him his money back. This "gentlemen" decided that the $500 pot was that important and left right away. Just wondering if this is a normal house rule as I have never heard of it. Thanks.

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Well...most places I play in would be concerned with whether or not your buddy tabled the hand. If he did, then the pot should go to him, regardless of how he reads it. So...no, not a typical house rule.

That said, what the villain did afterward was shady, but irrelevant.

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Actually the rule that it is a players responsibility to protect his hand is a typical house rule.

You need to protect your hand until the pot is pushed to you.

[AngusThermopyle]

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Actually the rule that it is a players responsibility to protect his hand is a typical house rule.

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Actually the rule is that the best tabled hand wins and it is the dealer's responsibility to get it right.

That said, my rule is, the waitress and the drink can wait (one wonders how many drinks the friend had and if he really had a FH). My other rule is, give me the $500 pot and only then will I let go of my cards.

Same rule for my casino and a quite a few others I played at. I wouldn't call it a Bad Beat story, more like a lesson learned story. When you got that much dough on the table, unless the waitress is Pam Anderson, you better pay attention. As a matter of practice I like to declare my hands when it is a big pot, so the dealer knows what hand they're looking at. Sometimes (most are guilty of it), when you look at a board some hands just stand out at you and you don't expect someone to be playing K4 off.

As for the other player, shame on him. Its a game and you should expect to lose. It is far worse to be the pariah of the casino (if you're a regular) and pull that kind of stuff. I hope is son needed a kidney transplant, then at least the money would have been good for something instead of going up his nose.....

In response to a couple of these. I agree my friend learned a valuable lesson, and I'm pretty sure I would have made sure such a large pot was coming my way before i turned to get the drink. But doesn't change the fact that it totally sucks, and the guy is a total creep who pulled this S***. My favourite part of the whole thing is that the casino didn't offer anything for their dealer's error. Finally, my friend asked if they would comp his buffet and they reluctanly agreed.

[AngusThermopyle]

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But doesn't change the fact that it totally sucks, and the guy is a total creep who pulled this S***.

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If you are talking about the guy with the flush, remember...

A. From your story, neither the dealer nor anybody at the table saw this Full House. Maybe your friend was mistaken.

B. I have a flush, I cannot see your hand, the dealer mucks your hand...I ain't giving you squat because you claim you had a Full House.

C. The Flush didn't "pull" anything. Your friend's complaint is with himself, the dealer, and the house.

D. I hope the buffet and the waitress was worth $500.

[ZenMusician]

Nobody asked for a manager?
They have no cameras in this joint?
They have no gaming control board?
You settled a $500 pot for eggrolls and chicken wings?

I call BS

-ZEN

My friend had a full house of 10's full of 7's. Flopped the set of ten's and paired the board on the river. Definitley a bad suckout, but not the point of the post. The floor was called over and reiterated that it was the player's responsibility and not the dealer's to ensure the pot went to the proper player. The argument went on for a few minutes because the cards were face up on the table, they had been brought into a pile but not sent into the muck. I'm not sure I understand why they couldn't go to the cameras to determine how much was in the pot. Any ideas?

[mrkilla]

Yes the moral is, make sure the pots going your way, the waitress can wait , or tell her to put the drink down and come back for the cash in a minute when your of the hand.
Never turn your back when your still "in a hand"

[AngusThermopyle]

... because the cards were face up on the table, they had been brought into a pile but not sent into the muck.

Gee. Small detail you didn't think was important in your original post.

[coffeecrazy1]

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Hey everybody,

I'm a long time lurker, but this is my first post. Just wanted to say how beneficial i've found this site in general.

I know no one likes bad beat stories, but i felt compared to share this one. Fortunately, it happened to my friend and not to me.

Casino Niagara in Niagara Falls Canada. Game is 1/2 NL.

Long story short my friend paired the board on the river to make is full house and the villian had a king high flush (NOT A STRAIGHT FLUSH). My friend, flipped over his cards revealing his hand and turned to grab a drink from the waitress that had been patiently waiting for his hand to finish. When he looked back the dealer had raked the pot to the player with the flush. Obviously, my friend was not impressed and called the floor over. They informed him that it was the player's responsibility to ensure the pot gets raked to the proper player and once the chips have been distributed thats final. He was upset, and very politely asked the guy to split the pot or just give him his money back. This "gentlemen" decided that the $500 pot was that important and left right away. Just wondering if this is a normal house rule as I have never heard of it. Thanks.

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Well...most places I play in would be concerned with whether or not your buddy tabled the hand. If he did, then the pot should go to him, regardless of how he reads it. So...no, not a typical house rule.

That said, what the villain did afterward was shady, but irrelevant.

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Actually the rule that it is a players responsibility to protect his hand is a typical house rule.

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I don't dispute that a player must protect his hand, but that rule is not the one in question, it doesn't seem. This seems to be an issue of tabling the winning hand, and the dealer being responsible for correctly assessing the winning hand, not the player leaving his cards unguarded and having them swept into the muck.

[mosquito]

It used to be, at the Plaza in LV, that a dealer who made a bad push made up the difference out of his pocket.

[Randy_Refeld]

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I don't dispute that a player must protect his hand, but that rule is not the one in question, it doesn't seem. This seems to be an issue of tabling the winning hand, and the dealer being responsible for correctly assessing the winning hand, not the player leaving his cards unguarded and having them swept into the muck.

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When a hand is turned face up the casino shoudl do everything possible to award the pot to the best hand; however, the player still must protect his hand from being taken by the dealer. This is why there is a specific provedure on how to muck the hands. The delaer should turn the losing hand face down in front of the player and slide it into the muck. By turning it down before moving it this gives the player a chance to object while their cards are still in front of them.

[2+2 wannabe]

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... because the cards were face up on the table, they had been brought into a pile but not sent into the muck.

Gee. Small detail you didn't think was important in your original post.

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My friend, flipped over his cards revealing his hand

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[AngusThermopyle]

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... because the cards were face up on the table, they had been brought into a pile but not sent into the muck.

Gee. Small detail you didn't think was important in your original post.

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My friend, flipped over his cards revealing his hand

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Nice point. But not really.
The implication of the OP was that his friend's hand had been mucked by the dealer.

The ruling is correct. I have a feeling your friend will make this mistake again.

[Georgia Avenue]

Somewhat of a bad beat but it just belabors the obvious: make sure, with a winning hand, to scream PAS THE SUGA! as loud as possible as you leap around the room doing some sort of interpretive dance based on the strength of the hand...

like in this case he could have started yelping Boat! BOAT BABY! OOOOOOO-GAH! (foghorn noises) and flapping his arms like a sail. Standard.

I'm not sure you can say this ruling is correct. I've been called to rule in this situation and if players not involved in the hand can verify that they saw the winning hand face up on the table then that player is getting the pot. I don't care whose cards are mucked, it is the casino's job to see that the pot gets pushed to the winning hand.

Cards speak and everyone at the table is jointly responsible to see that pots are correctly awarded.

[AKQJ10]

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My other rule is, give me the $500 pot and only then will I let go of my cards.

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That's the best general policy IMO, and a habit I'm glad to have picked up every time I see a rules controversy regarding showing (or not showing) hands.

To draw an analogy: in some states, the pedestrian always has right of way. But if you walk in front of a car traveling 55 mph, your relatives probably aren't going to get much joy from prosecuting the driver for vehicular homicide. In other words, theoretically being in the right is no substitute for vigilance. The dealer still has every responsibility should push the pot to owner of the best hand shown down, regardless of whether said owner is busy with the drinks. But as the OP's friend found out it's scant consolation that they weren't doing their job when the other guy is racking your chips and running for the door.

I'd probably report it to the poker room manager and play somewhere else if you can, unless you're satisfied by their response.

[Sparks]

This decision is so outrageously wrong, that it's actually hard to believe.

Once a winning hand is tabled face up, that player must get the pot. With that retarded ruling by the floorman, the player should immediately appeal to the manager and go as far as he must to have the house review the tape, determine the size of the pot, and award it correctly.

Your friend screwed himself by giving up so easily, if in fact he had the winning hand.

Sparks

The rule of thumb that seems to be in place is that once a pot gets actually pushed to a player (not just that it is in front of him, but he has scooped it in and taken possession) the house will not take it back from him. I don't know if this is a written rule, a legal requirement or just the the way things seem to be done. That being said if a casino makes a habit of paying a player who has the winning hand but doesn't correct the error until after the pot gets pushed then the house is inviting players to take a free shot at them, because a player no longer has any incentive to correct the error at a time where it can be corrected easily.

That being said I don't object to paying a player in some situations.