Mods please chill...."8-tabling and such" (cont)

[Big Limpin']

First: you mods have a reason for locking that one? I dont post here as much anymore, but still browse, and when i find a post i want to reply, and spent 30 seconds going "where is the damn reply/quote button" then deducing its been locked. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

So i want to reply to ZeroPointMachine's:
[ QUOTE ]
[...]8-tabling at the 20s [...] play was far from optimal. I really seemed to struggle around the middle stages. One table would be in ITM, 1-2 would be on the bubble, and 3-4 would be in pre-bubble(5-7 player). The action speeds up at this point because of the reduced number of players but I would generally still have 6-8 tables in play. The biggest -EV change in my game was a tendancy to shy away from re-steals because I just didn't have the read I wanted to make the move. Hopefully, I will adjust after a few hundred more games.

[/ QUOTE ]

So yeah, this is familiar to me. I've been 9-tabling the last few weeks, after only doing quads before. And the scenarios ZPM mentions have been happening in my games too. I've been doing 800chips, and they open quick enough. I usually get all 9 up within 3 minutes, according to SnGtracker, so start times are not staggered by any meaningful amount.

15 minutes later:
-1 table is still in 10/15 mode, weve played 8 hands and nobody has busted.
-2 tables are a little further along, but still 9,10 ppl
-a handful are about "normal" at 25/50, 7-8 handed
-a few are speeding along and just pre-bubble
-...then i look up and this one table is 4 handed, and i have t650 vs t2k, t3k, t2k...ahhhH!! and its not even pushbotable yet...gonna need to play some real poker to survive

and its from this point, for about the next 15 minutes, thats the real hectic time. Things actually seem more straightforward come ITM. I find anyways. Its when you need to give different amounts of attention to paticular tables, and that can only come at the expense of others.

Like the one case i give when a table is 4 handed, you shorty, and you still have a full slate of other games. Well, THIS is the one that is most read-critical, you want to be watching every hand on this, most important, table.

I find this often leads me to take a pass on some hands on the early tables that i would play if single tabling. Say 99 or AQo utg in level 3...or not making a steal from the CO in level 4 that would probably be slightly plusEV...i just take a pass on them bacause my attention is better served making a better decision elsewhere. And ZPM, you give re-steals as an example. Totally, thats right in there too.

I'm thinking the #of important decisions per minute peaks at around 20-30 minutes into a session. The very early is alot of folding preflop, lots of tables, but they are each full and going slow. And at the very end, its fast action but usually half the # tables.

----

SO hopefully we can reopen the discussion? Its sad we need a new thread though /images/graemlins/frown.gif

I'd really like to hear others experiences with this, and if they found any good solutions /images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm still in my first month of this, so hope i can learns the best way once when its easy.

[HonchoOverload]

I'm also confused as to why my thread was locked.

[citanul]

here's my problem, ok?

here's the original post:

[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed that some of you play 8 tables at once. I can maybe handle 3 six handed tables at once before I just don't notice player characteristics anymore and have a hard time making effective decisions. How the hell does one do 8?!??!?!

[/ QUOTE ]

as i said to durron, my response is:

[ QUOTE ]
i'm sick of things that say "i don't get how you do x, i can only do y" when the answer is "to 8 table, you click open 5 more tables than when you 3 table, and then you play poker"

[/ QUOTE ]

while the discussion that might grow might be great, the original question stinks.

like a few more:

Q: how do i move up?
A: you click on a table with a bigger buyin

Q: how do i play continuous instead of in sets?
A: you open a new table when one busts

Q: how big is your penis?
A: huge

c

[HonchoOverload]

Wow, you guys sure know how to engender a community.

Better question, then (and what I was effectively getting at when you shut my thread down)

At what x does x-tabling take away from your ROI because you can't observe player characteristics effectively?

[skipperbob]

Power Corrupts...Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, you guys sure know how to engender a community.

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet he made it to the finals in the mod contest and I lost in the second round /images/graemlins/confused.gif

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[bjb23]

[ QUOTE ]
Better question, then ?

[/ QUOTE ]

ummm not really... this has been asked many times.

the variable x in your case depends on so many factors that it's not even funny. are you a good multitasker? are you old and cant see well? what buyin are you playing? 1000 or 1500 or 800 chippers? are you used to playing many tables? surely x is dependent on practice, no? do you have a multi monitor set up? do you look at porn while you play?? ... i could go on and on.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
do you look at porn while you play?? ...

[/ QUOTE ]

That would make the variable "3x" correct? I dunno what you guys look at but anything else aint worth it.

[Big Limpin']

(in a mountainclimbing forum, Himilayas subforum)
Q: Some of you guys have climbed everest, no? Id like to do that, im trying...ive climbed K2 and came out ok, but i seem to have problems from basecamp2 on up. Can you guys give me any pointers? /images/graemlins/smile.gif
A: Dummy. Just sand there and start walking up./images/graemlins/mad.gif
Q: Ok, but, like, my oxygen keeps running out, and i have other problems /images/graemlins/confused.gif
***LOCKED*** /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[HonchoOverload]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Better question, then ?

[/ QUOTE ]

ummm not really... this has been asked many times.

the variable x in your case depends on so many factors that it's not even funny. are you a good multitasker? are you old and cant see well? what buyin are you playing? 1000 or 1500 or 800 chippers? are you used to playing many tables? surely x is dependent on practice, no? do you have a multi monitor set up? do you look at porn while you play?? ... i could go on and on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, what x does it decline with YOU? And what buyin/level do you play? Let's compare some friggin' data for christ's sake. We're all geeks here...

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]
At what x does x-tabling take away from your ROI because you can't observe player characteristics effectively?

[/ QUOTE ]

At the 55s, I would guess x > 12. I 10-table, and I can observe many of the key elements of a hand instantaneously (<1 second) that account for I would estimate 95% of my decisions. Beyond that I have information such as PT stats by # of players remaining, hand history, # of games I've played with this person, notes, etc. available for other circumastances in those estimated 5% of hands where I have to "think" about what to do, which make my decisions just as easy then. I very rarely time out, but I very often come close when I am near the bubble on many tables at once, so I'm guessing 12 is near the max where you could effectively operate without taking such a hit to your ROI that it wouldn't just be better to play a lesser # of tables.

At the 33s and below, I would guess x > 16. Same reasoning as above, with more simplified decisions on the bubble and such.

At the 109s and above, I have no idea. I plan on dropping to 8 when I take stabs at the 109s.

All those above #'s are assuming you have monitors that show your tables without overlap. (though I have some overlap with tables 9 and 10 when I play)

[bjb23]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
do you look at porn while you play?? ...

[/ QUOTE ]

That would make the variable "3x" correct? I dunno what you guys look at but anything else aint worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, nh pooh.

[ QUOTE ]
(in a mountainclimbing forum, Himilayas subforum)
Q: Some of you guys have climbed everest, no? Id like to do that, im trying...ive climbed K2 and came out ok, but i seem to have problems from basecamp2 on up. Can you guys give me any pointers? /images/graemlins/smile.gif
A: Dummy. Just sand there and start walking up./images/graemlins/mad.gif
Q: Ok, but, like, my oxygen keeps running out, and i have other problems /images/graemlins/confused.gif
***LOCKED*** /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

lol nh

[UMTerp]

* Toward the end of flight school *

Q: So I've got the takeoff down pat, and I'm fine with going from Point A to Point B, but I'm still a little shaky with landing - it seems like a lot of information to absorb all at once. Any last second tips?

A: I can't believe some of the STUPID questions we're getting here!! Just go down until the wheels touch the ground. SHEESH!!

Q: Uhhh, OK, sir, but...

***LOCKED***

[ZeroPointMachine]

Here's one possible suggestion for keeping things manageable while 8-tabling. It just occurred to me so I'll give it a try tonight.

During the first third of the set, when things are pretty easily manageable, I am going to make an effort to reaarange my tables so that the ones with the fewest number of players are on the left and it increases as you move to the right. I think this little bit of housekeeping could help me keep tables prioritized when things get a little more hectic.

[EarlOfSandwich]

I'm glad this question came up again, because it's something I have been wondering about.

I started playing SnGs about a month ago, before which I played mostly NL ring games and MTTs. I'm not a pro and play maybe 1 or 2 hours a day, on average.

I started at the 22s, and used those to figure out my game. I've found multitabling surprisingly difficult, though. The most I've done is 3-tabling the 22s, and I'm now 2-tabling the 33s, with an eye toward 3-tabling them and then perhaps moving to the 55s.

On the one hand, I feel like I'm pretty solid and significantly better than the competition. On the other hand, I still find myself making mistakes. I would say maybe 1 out of 3 tables I make some sort of move that I realize to be an error moments later.

My problem with multitabling is mostly in two places. First, on the border between levels 3 and 4, where, if you haven't built a stack, you have to find the best spot or two to make a move. If you don't watch the tables closely when counting down to that level 4, you could find yourself with 500 chips and being the first person to pay level 4 blinds. Not exactly ideal.

I have more trouble, actually, with final 2. If I have one table at final 2 and one (or more) others at the hectic late stages, I often play poor heads-up poker. Sometimes it doesn't matter, if the blinds are big and/or stacks uneven. Sometimes it does -- like if you're both at 4k and the blinds are $150. Gotta play some poker then.

I'm guessing that moving up levels will help me ultimately dispell those problem areas. By the time I move up and beat the 55s, I'll have worked on my game enough and built enough confidence/bankroll to multitable the 33s or 22s.

[Big Limpin']

[ QUOTE ]
At what x does x-tabling take away from your ROI because you can't observe player characteristics effectively?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not sure, yet. But i think its not a static number. With experience will come accustomisation, and you will "need" less time per decision? Or time to train your talent in monitoring the action at several tables simultaneously.

I remember when i first 2-tabled. That was alot of action, damn. Heh. And then 4 seemed like I was pushing the very boundaries of what my brain could process.

So i think for me or you, now, we are past the x of:
[ QUOTE ]
At what x does x-tabling take away from your ROI because you can't observe player characteristics effectively?

[/ QUOTE ]
but that x will rise with time. hopefully up to the full amount. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif I've not logged enough sample, but my return seemes about 5 points lower with respect to only quadding. And i wouldnt be suprised if it never rises to that level. THe earn rate, $/hr, however, is markedly higher. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[UMTerp]

* Citanul Manages the Astros *

Brad Lidge: So we're one out away here, a couple guys on base, and this Pujols guy is coming up. Are you sure that it's the best idea to...

Citanul (angrily): Just strike him out, damnit. That's what I'd do!!

Lidge: Sure thing, coach!

[runner4life7]

no offense but this idea is terrible in my opinion. If you are having troubles watching 8 tables. Trying to organize them like this is going to make it harder for that period and not help at all. If you cant multitask that well then try 6 till thats easy. I remember when 4 tabling was hard then 8 tabling was hard and now i 10 table while spinning in circles in my chair. So get somewhere and get comfortable and gradually move up and practice more. Its thats simple.

[pokerdirty]

[ QUOTE ]
Power Corrupts...Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

haha, this is my boss' quote, only different.