KTo

[PokerBob]

canterbury 15/30 9 handed

I don't know too much about button, but one other player told me he is a calling station monkey. Folds to button who raises. SB folds. I call in the BB with K /images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif
I check, button bets, I raise, he calls.

Turn: K /images/graemlins/club.gif
I bet, he takes about 10-15 seconds and then raises. He may or may not have made some speech with said raise, but I had my ipod on so who knows. What's my line?

It seems to me that the combined chances of being ahead at the moment plus you can draw another club makes a call +EV, due to the fairly big pot. A raise would make no sense, since he'll reraise when you are beat, losing a bet, and he probably won't call you with a worse hand. So a raise has no or negative expectation.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that the combined chances of being ahead at the moment plus you can draw another club makes a call +EV, due to the fairly big pot. A raise would make no sense, since he'll reraise when you are beat, losing a bet, and he probably won't call you with a worse hand. So a raise has no or negative expectation.

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/confused.gif


I threebet the turn here.

[jgorham]

It would help to know exactly what calling station monkey means. Does button raise QQ on the turn? The A/images/graemlins/club.gif? Or are monkeys of a more passive nature in general, more inclined to laugh and eat?

[bicyclekick]

Ehh it's pretty close and doesn't overly matter.

I think I'd want to see a bet go in on the river. If you just call, do you check a non-club river to him?

Even when you're behind against a K with better kicker, you still have 3 outs + 6 outs for a split pot, and on top of that 9 outs for a flush which will probably win. So it looks like an easy call.

Check-call the river unimproved because you are getting 9:1 odds.

[ggbman]

I like to call this turn raise and bet/call the river.

[CardSharpCook]

Calling station monkeys don't 3bet bluff that often. I call, check/call.

I wouldn't like to see the river go check/check, and how much faith are we going to put in some random guy's read?

[NMcNasty]

I think this is one of those hands where its a calldown live but a reraise online.

[HopeydaFish]

You know you're in trouble when the calling station starts raising you when there's a scary board. Did he typically raise on the button before this hand?

Preflop, if he isn't one to try to steal the blinds with marginal holdings, you can put him on a very limited number of hands -- probably AA, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, QQ, QJs (maybe), KJs(maybe) and JJ.

However, his re-raise on the turn is screaming AK, KQ, KJ or maybe AA. A calling station is not raising you on the turn with anything else.

Your only hope is that the river is a club (and he's not holding a higher club), or a 10, or that he's holding AA. Any other hand that he could conceivably be both raising pre-flop with *and* raising the turn with is going to have you outkicked.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
I like to call this turn raise and bet/call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems pretty sweet to me.

I'd rather not three-bet and risk either letting a worse hand fold or get capped and have to call with chop, boat, and flush outs. But I REALLY don't want the river to check-through either. I think you'll get raised on the river enough by just another K (some of which you beat) that you should call a river raise. (Folding to a river raise after a donk there would have some pretty bad image consequences, too, in my opinion.)

[RED_RAIN]

First I'm feeling a 3 bet and hoping no club as I think he might have As here with A of club.

I don't like call the raise on turn then bet river line because I think he raises with a better hand and might not call with a worse hand.

I'd prefer if anything a call on the turn and check/call river because he'll still bet the Js or Qs there.

[W. Deranged]

I think one of the major advantages to the call turn-bet river line is that you are going to get a third bet in from plenty of hands that might fold to a turn three-bet or check behind the river. The donk bet will often just confuse people and lull them into a call.

[Klepton]

have you ever waited 15 seconds when you at a hand better than KT on that board to raise?

3-bet, bet/fold a club on the river, bet/call everything else.

[PokerBob]

canterbury 15/30 9 handed

I don't know too much about button, but one other player told me he is a calling station monkey. Folds to button who raises. SB folds. I call in the BB with K /images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif
I check, button bets, I raise, he calls.

Turn: K /images/graemlins/club.gif
I bet, he takes about 10-15 seconds and then raises. He may or may not have made some speech with said raise, but I had my ipod on so who knows. What's my line?

I called.
River: 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I checked, he bet, I called. He shows A /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. meh.

[James282]

No comment on the hand, but it amazes me that good players wear Ipods and stuff in 30/60 games. Why would you purposely ignore information the other players are trying to give you? Are you really that worried that they will pick up more information on you if you can hear them? Aren't good players supposed to be better information gatherers and hiders than bad ones?

If you do it out of boredom, couldn't you just turn it off during the hand?
-James

[Paluka]

I would 3 bet this turn.

[TheCodeDog]

He's constantly expressed disdain for almost every player he's up against live. His normal player descriptions make this clear. He also made some post about buying an iPod because he hates all of humanity or something.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
No comment on the hand, but it amazes me that good players wear Ipods and stuff in 30/60 games. Why would you purposely ignore information the other players are trying to give you? Are you really that worried that they will pick up more information on you if you can hear them? Aren't good players supposed to be better information gatherers and hiders than bad ones?

If you do it out of boredom, couldn't you just turn it off during the hand?
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

a.) it was a 15 game
b.) i am clearly not a good player
c.) the ipod keeps me sane, although i do typically remove it during a hand.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
He's constantly expressed disdain for almost every player he's up against live. His normal player descriptions make this clear. He also made some post about buying an iPod because he hates all of humanity or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not sure that this is accurate. if i describe someone as a retard or a monkey, they are merely a retard or a monkey. it does not mean that i hate them.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I would 3 bet this turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

how do you react to a 4-bet? check/fold the river UI?