Middle Set - Can I laydown at any point?

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $4 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

MP2 ($285.90)
CO ($211.85)
Button ($794.40)
SB ($81.80)
BB ($160)
UTG ($116)
UTG+1 ($690.90)
Hero ($483.65)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls $4, UTG+1 calls $4, Hero calls $4, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $4, Button calls $4, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: ($26) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $24.7</font>, CO calls $24.70, Button folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ($75.40) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $72.4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $183.15</font>, Hero calls $110.75.

River: ($441.70) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $441.70

At first glance, this hand seems pretty basic.. but what else can he be looking me up with QQ or JT etc... or a big wrap

[hockeyf]

Fold preflop for sure, your hand is terrible.

Why not re-raise the turn? In my opinion, either you're against QQ (=&gt; fold) or you're not (=&gt; push).

Especially with the rainbow board.

But then again I'm a fairly low level PLO player, 100-200 max.

[ QUOTE ]
Why not re-raise the turn? In my opinion, either you're against QQ (=&gt; fold) or you're not (=&gt; push).

Especially with the rainbow board.

But then again I'm a fairly low level PLO player, 100-200 max.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't re-raise the turn. That's all he had left - 110.

I guess that basically answers my question though.. would have been better folding preflop. The hand really can't do [censored] other than make a naked set.

The villain did indeed have QQ. For some reason, I was thinking bottom set though.

Next time - I'll play a little tighter.

Tears

[BluffTHIS!]

Fold that dog preflop next time and fold on the turn. He slowplayed QQ most likely. Even if he has QJT9 and only has top 2 trying to get you off a splitting straight draw, or even bottom set in this particular case, this will be a money loser most of the time. Unless you really have a player dependent reason to call in these situations (in which case you would reraise), then you should be able to lay down middle set or you will never be a winner in the long run.

[nicky g]

Again, fold that preflop. It's a horrible hand.

I think you have to call the turn. There's too much money in the pot compared to what you have to call - not even a full pot raise - to fold, unless you know villain relatively well. If there was more money left to bet you probably have to fold.

Re: your remark about next time playing tighter: changing your strategy on the result of one hand is horrible. Base your strategy on long-term results and on serious analysis of the game and players.

[DRKEVDC]

Learning to laydown middle sets will save you an awful lot of money. The same goes for k high flushes and underfulls.

[Tilt]

Q: What kind of hand calls the flop and pushes over you on the blank turn in a mid stakes game?

A: One that is either crushing middle set or that is not very far behind.

And that is the worst piece of trash I have seen a 2+2er play from MP.

[nicky g]

[ QUOTE ]
Learning to laydown middle sets will save you an awful lot of money. The same goes for k high flushes and underfulls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very generally I agree but I'm not sure in a situation where it's for for less than a pot raise all-in with no info on the guy. Hard and fast rules like "always lay down middle set to a raise" are foolish. Would you lay it down if the all in raise was for five bucks? Clearly there are situations when you shouldn't.

[DRKEVDC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Learning to laydown middle sets will save you an awful lot of money. The same goes for k high flushes and underfulls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very generally I agree but I'm not sure in a situation where it's for for less than a pot raise all-in with no info on the guy. Hard and fast rules like "always lay down middle set to a raise" are foolish. Would you lay it down if the all in raise was for five bucks? Clearly there are situations when you shouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are 100% correct, I should have put one more word in my post. It should have read "Learning WHEN to laydown middle sets will save......

Of course I don't laydown middle set every time, however, if I have a decent read on you and you are showing strength, I am laying this down

[ QUOTE ]
Q: What kind of hand calls the flop and pushes over you on the blank turn in a mid stakes game?

A: One that is either crushing middle set or that is not very far behind.

And that is the worst piece of trash I have seen a 2+2er play from MP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was trying to build a lag image - I doubled up quickly after when I hit a wrap/nut flush draw on the flop and hit my flush on the turn.

Sometimes I'll play around 25 VPIP and others around 45VPIP. I think it's important in Omaha when your opponents actually recognize how many hands you are actually playing to mix it up.

Tears

[Tilt]

There is loose, and then there is LOOSE.

9943 from MP suggests a VPIP of 80%+.

[JasonP530]

So if you got raised on the flop, you would lay down the same as if you got raised on the turn? Clearly there is a difference in getting raised in each spot.

I know this has been said, but about preflop. This is where if you had something like T998, you would at least have outs with a gutshot, in case you were up against top set. Here you don't have anything....