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J Chap
11-14-2005, 04:10 AM
Thank you in advance for being a nerd with me...

Here we go:

Flop is 3TJ rainbow. I have QK. I end up pushing all-in, and my opponent calls with AJ. No flush draws on the flop.

Given my correct inclination that I had 14 outs to the best hand, I was insulted by his insinuation that I got "lucky" when I won the hand. A polite altercation ensued.

He insisted that I needed to 'catch' in order to win. The way I see it, HE needed to catch cards-that-missed-me, which, in this case, were the minority. Basically, the fact that the first 5/7 of his Hold 'Em hand would make a higher-ranking Stud hand than mine is meaningless, since we were playing Hold 'Em. Right?

So, who, would you say, was "ahead" at the time?

Thank you for feeding my geekery.
J Chap
11-14-2005, 04:12 AM
and my ego. because you will only reply if you agree.

jk jk

god i'm a loser
Tom1975
11-14-2005, 10:25 AM
Sorry, you lose:

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing Ts 3d Jh
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Js Ac 526 53.13 464 46.87 0 0.00 0.531
Qs Kc 464 46.87 526 53.13 0 0.00 0.469

He'll win 53.13%, you'll win 46.87%. Even if he had a two instead of an Ace, it would still only be 50/50.
11-14-2005, 03:20 PM
'Ahead' in my opinion would mean who at a certain point is winning the hand. At the point in question he is ahead with a pair of Jacks to your King high. In the same way,

Kh Qh is not ahead of 2c 2d on a board of 10h Jh 10s, despite being a 71.465% favourite.
mackthefork
11-14-2005, 03:54 PM
You have only 13 outs and he will usually have a redraw of at least 3 cards.

Mack
11-14-2005, 06:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
He insisted that I needed to 'catch' in order to win.

[/ QUOTE ]


Let him win the verbals. You concentrate on winning the pots.

Continue to feed his ego. He'll feed the pot.

To me, that's a win-win situation.
pzhon
11-15-2005, 12:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I was insulted by his insinuation that I got "lucky" when I won the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Whenever your opponent is all-in and not drawing dead, you need to be lucky to win. You expected to get less than the whole pot.

It doesn't make much of a difference if you have a slightly favorable coin-toss or one that is slightly unfavorable.
etizzle
11-15-2005, 02:45 AM
you were behind, but not by much. Who cares what he says though?

pokenum -h kh qc - ac js -- jh td 4c
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 4c Td Jh
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qc Kh 464 46.87 526 53.13 0 0.00 0.469
Js Ac 526 53.13 464 46.87 0 0.00 0.531
11-15-2005, 05:25 AM
Pzhon is right: you are lucky on EVERY hand you win at showdown. So yes, you were lucky.
11-15-2005, 01:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He insisted that I needed to 'catch' in order to win.

[/ QUOTE ]


Let him win the verbals. You concentrate on winning the pots.

Continue to feed his ego. He'll feed the pot.

To me, that's a win-win situation.

[/ QUOTE ]


Touche
11-16-2005, 12:02 PM
im confused: can someone tell me WHICH card is NOT in your hand by luck?

i always get a kick out of the observation "nice hand", and the reply, "thank you"--as though the holder of said hand is somehow responsible for it being there.
jman220
11-16-2005, 01:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
'Ahead' in my opinion would mean who at a certain point is winning the hand. At the point in question he is ahead with a pair of Jacks to your King high. In the same way,

Kh Qh is not ahead of 2c 2d on a board of 10h Jh 10s, despite being a 71.465% favourite.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he flipped up his pocket 2's and pushed all in for $400 into a $2 pot would you fold because you were "behind?" If your answer is yes, you should not be playing poker.