77 Turn

[shant]

BB is TAG(18/10/1.5) and CO is 63/8/1.6<3.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: I am Button with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">I raise</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">I bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, CO calls, I call.

Turn: (6.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, CO checks, easy bet right?

[cold_cash]

I think so, yeah.

[WillyTrailer]

I'd bet it.

-WT

[private joker]

Yeah you have to bet. And fold if raised again I think.

[meep_42]

That's the last bet into the pot, right?

-d

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
That's the last bet into the pot, right?

-d

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have to think so. I have a hard time betting here but I think you have to grit your teeth and fire it anyway. I'm checking behind on pretty much any river that isn't precisely the 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

[meep_42]

I'd bet a non-/images/graemlins/club.gif deuce. Probably.

-d

[W. Deranged]

I think that if we like our hand enough to call the flop check-raise, then we should certainly like it enough to bet here.

With that in mind, I'd say that I think calling the flop check-raise is hardly standard and pretty read-dependent. There are plenty of players who will only check-raise top pair and better. I think that against an unknown, particularly with the cold-caller in between, folding to the flop check-raise is probably slightly better than calling.

[brettbrettr]

Yes. I notice EP 10/20 players do this alot, figuring any LP player who bet a checked round flop has nothing. They normally follow-up with a turn bet, but I think this guy saw that you called and is giving it up. Unless of coure he plans on c/r'ing you again....

[BigBrother]

I like it. Bet/fold, check the river.

I agree that flop c/r is with air enough of the time that staying with your 77 is +EV.

[callmedonnie]

I think you have to bet. Looks like Tag made a move on what is an auto bet coming for you but didn't realize how fishy the fish is.

[ReptileHouse]

This feels like a flush or straight draw from at least one of your opponents. I'd hate to give a free card here.

Another thought is what % of the time do you think the BB folds a weak queen here?

I like bet/fold on the turn with this being the last money you put into the pot.

[shant]

Yeah, the call was read dependent. I thought the bad player would've donked me with top pair or a decent hand because he had been doing that a lot. I didn't think the TAG would try and shut out the bad player with a strong hand, so I put him on a 5 or a draw or air. I wanted to see the turn and the action there.

[DMBFan23]

I definitely bet and definitely fold to any more bets.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't think the TAG would try and shut out the bad player with a strong hand,

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a side note, last night I saw a "TAG" check raise to shut out the field with a monster. Made no sense whatsoever.

[BigEndian]

Here's my dilema with the hand. I almost certainly put the TAG on a PP with a small chance at over-cards or a flush draw. He wanted to try to get it heads-up but isn't going to lead into 2 players again, one who called 2-cold, with a middle pair.

So, I think most of the time you are still way behind unless he is getting out of line.

In the heat of the game I might bet this again, but I would hope I would think about the above.

- Jim

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]


So, I think most of the time you are still way behind unless he is getting out of line.



[/ QUOTE ]

If you think most of the time Hero is way behind, then you should be folding to the flop raise. Checking here is inconsistent with even seeing a turn. I think the flop call says, "I have the best hand and you check-raised me with a weak holding trying to get it heads up, so when you check to me on the turn again, I am going to value bet."

I definitely want to check the river, but not the turn. If I'm checking the turn after being checked to, I'm folding the flop.

[W. Deranged]

I think one of the main reasons I bet this is because if I check behind here on the turn I feel very uncomfortable folding the river unimproved, as my turn check is inviting a bet from someone with almost anything, including 4s, 5s, 66, 33, and possibly even A high.

So I feel very much that I need to put in one more big bet on this hand. It seems quite clear to me that it is much better to do so on the turn than on the river (for protection, value against draws, limiting reverse implied odds, etc...).

[BigEndian]

[ QUOTE ]

If you think most of the time Hero is way behind, then you should be folding to the flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. Until the villain checks the turn, I think the chances of him having overcards or the flush draw are worthy. That hand changed with the turn check imo.

Also, there is a difference between being sure enough to put a value bet in and sure enough to call down.

- Jim

[BigEndian]

If you check the turn, you are definitely calling the river for one bet and not over-calling.

- Jim

Could be be raising the flush draw or overs. Go to WA/WB mode I think. Bet the turn, fold to any resistance.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
Until the villain checks the turn, I think the chances of him having overcards or the flush draw are worthy. That hand changed with the turn check imo.



[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif You're giving him credit for more of a hand when he checks??

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
If you check the turn, you are definitely calling the river for one bet and not over-calling.

- Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Will is just tyring to stay in control of the hand and not give free cards.

[BigEndian]

Betting the turn would be semi-bluffing with overs. Also his overs could have very marginal showdown value. Bet to win.

With a PP he has a show-downable hand but what kind of hands are calling him 2-cold?

He's taken a very confusing line, but this is my best guess as to what he's playing and what he might be thinking.

Would you check the turn on a flush draw or with overs after CRing the flop? I hope not.

- Jim

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
Could be be raising the flush draw or overs. Go to WA/WB mode I think. Bet the turn, fold to any resistance.

[/ QUOTE ]

no way are we ever "way ahead" here

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Could be be raising the flush draw or overs. Go to WA/WB mode I think. Bet the turn, fold to any resistance.

[/ QUOTE ]

no way are we ever "way ahead" here

[/ QUOTE ]

I miss you. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Bet the turn.

[shant]

I bet, they both called.

River was some blankish card that didn't complete draws and it went check, check, check and I win. Tag had an open ender and fish had a flush draw.

[pokerjunky]

What were your plans if BB bets the turn like he does 95% of the time after checkraising the flop?

[shant]

On that turn card, I would've raised him if the bad player had folded. I don't think I can continue if he bets and the bad player calls.

[ErrantNight]

i dislike the tag's line

[smurfitup]

i thing tag's line is fine... he check raises the flop to face co w/ 2 bets and put op to the test... once the cutoff stays in, he knows he can't win the pot on the turn and decides to keep his draw as cheap as possible. i'd probably play it the same, fwiw.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
i thing tag's line is fine... he check raises the flop to face co w/ 2 bets and put op to the test... once the cutoff stays in, he knows he can't win the pot on the turn and decides to keep his draw as cheap as possible. i'd probably play it the same, fwiw.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you checkraise me with a draw and try to shut out someone who is going to pay off when you hit? It's a bad play.