TD27: Ed Miller?

[timprov]

I'm fooling around trying to get used to playing at UB again after a ton of hands at B2B. Thought this one was a somewhat novel decision. Does the Ed Miller rule apply to TD?

I'd been playing HU for a while with UTG, he's raised every hand since the table filld up. Everyone else is new.

Euri10's TD converter (http://membres.lycos.fr/euri10/td%20converter.html)

Hand number: 9173863-9147
Level: $1/$2
Players:
Hero($97) seat 0
SB($58) seat 1
BB($100) seat 2
UTG($40) seat 3
CO($93) seat 4

Button at seat 0

SB posts. BB posts.

Hand: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif5/images/graemlins/club.gif5/images/graemlins/spade.gifT/images/graemlins/heart.gif2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Round 1(0.75BB)

UTG raises. CO folds. Hero re-raises. SB calls. BB re-raises. UTG calls. Hero calls. SB calls. SB takes 2. BB takes 1. UTG takes 2. Hero takes 2.

Hand: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif5/images/graemlins/club.gif2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif3/images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Round 2(5.75BB)

SB checks. BB bets. UTG calls. Hero calls. SB calls. SB takes 1. BB stands pat. UTG takes 1. Hero takes 1.

Hand: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif5/images/graemlins/club.gif2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif3/images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Round 3(7.75BB)

SB checks. BB bets. UTG calls. Hero calls. SB calls. SB stands pat. BB takes 1. UTG takes 1. Hero takes 1.

Hand: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif5/images/graemlins/club.gif2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif9/images/graemlins/club.gif

Round 4(11.75BB)

SB bets. BB folds. UTG folds. Hero?

[MarkGritter]

How many bets are really in the pot anyway? 4 SB + 1 SB + 1BB x 4 ways + SB's bet = 15 BB?

SB check/calls and bets out? I think you could be good one time in 15 here easily. There is no reason for him to be slowplaying a monster the previous round as he can trap the field for another big bet.


Calls shouldn't be hugely profitable. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kumubou]

I would say yes, if only because SBs line seems completely illogical. I can not imagine standing pat with a 9 there with three people behind with one draw to go, but if he had anything better a raise would have gone in somewhere. No way in hell does he have a huge hand unless there is some crazy 346436th-level thinking going on, which at 1/2 I doubt is the case.

I must reiterate that his line makes zero sense.

-K

[euri10]

I call everytime here:)
btw what is Ed Miller rule please ?

[fnord_too]

I don't get it, are you asking if you should call or raise? CLearly folding is not an option, and I think there is some merit to raising here but I don't know if I can pull that trigger.

Also, even if utg is raising every hand, I don't like isolating with 256 a whole lot here. I think you just have to fold this preflop and wait for a better spot.

[fnord_too]

The more I think about it the more I really like a raise on this river. Here are my current thoughts about the good things that can happen:

1. A worse hand may call
2. A better hand may fold
3. If sb folds, you have some extremely valuable information
4. If you get called the meta game impacts are really nice. (Fear in general and more willingness to pay you off).
5. If you get called and win, double the fear in 4 and possibly add some tilt to the equation.

All this at the cost of 1BB and the (very low) possibility of being 3-bet.

1 and 2 are not contrictory if you have no read, and possibly not if you do have a read. A worse 9 or T could call here thinking you may bluff, and a better 9 or 876 could fold here because what worse hand would you be raising a pat hands bet with?

[Aicirt]

[ QUOTE ]
btw what is Ed Miller rule please ?

[/ QUOTE ]


Dont fold when the pot is large.

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
I call everytime here:)
btw what is Ed Miller rule please ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't fold for one bet when the pot is large and you have any chance of winning.

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it, are you asking if you should call or raise? CLearly folding is not an option, and I think there is some merit to raising here but I don't know if I can pull that trigger.

[/ QUOTE ]

I spent a little time in both the 1/2 and the 10/20 last night, and it just reinforced how incredibly different the two games are. In the 10/20 I think there's a pretty clear value raise here, as villain's going to have 98 or 97 pretty much always. In the 1/2, I don't think even a call is all that clear, as nobody in this game considers nines showdown hands. Villain here is going to have complete crap much more often than a worse nine. The question is, is that often enough? Plus there's B2B, where a call against an unknown is incredibly clear, simply on the chance villain doesn't know the rules. Is it really the same game across those three tables?

In any case I called and beat A7432.

[Oblivious]

"A7432"

Lol. He forgot to draw on the last round to his wheel. I was giving him credit for having 87 after failing to checkraise UTG then standing pat. I guess he would have to not be very observant of UTG for this to make sense. I'd have chickened out and just called.

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
"A7432"

Lol. He forgot to draw on the last round to his wheel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Much more likely he thought he was playing A-5.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"A7432"

Lol. He forgot to draw on the last round to his wheel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Much more likely he thought he was playing A-5.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would have been really funny is he threw his 7.