live hand--flop play with AQ

[Walker]

4/8

CO plays ~50% of his hands and is of average agression.

6 limpers, I raise A /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in SB, bb and everybody calls

Flop: A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I bet, pretty much everybody calls, CO raises, Hero???

Plan for the rest of the hand?

With the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif it's an easy 3bet, right?

[Felipe]

[ QUOTE ]
4/8

CO plays ~50% of his hands and is of average agression.

6 limpers, I raise A /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in SB, bb and everybody calls

Flop: A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I bet, pretty much everybody calls, CO raises, Hero???

Plan for the rest of the hand?

With the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif it's an easy 3bet, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm counting eight players to the flop, am I right? 16small bets? I think at such a big family pot, I call here and lead the turn if not dangerous. I'll call a turn raise. If he raises the turn, and I improve on the river I bet, if not, c/c. If he doesn't raise the turn, on the river I go on reads. Does he slow play? If he LOVES to slow play sets and 2pair, I c/c the river. If he's less tricky I lead the river.

Anyone else's thoughts?

I think you played the hand fine.

[Walker]

oops--too late to edit


I just wanted to note that I saw CO raise the nut flush draw in a similar spot (tons of opponents and last to act), and he didn't take the freecard on the turn when he missed his flush.

[Felipe]

[ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to note that I saw CO raise the nut flush draw in a similar spot (tons of opponents and last to act), and he didn't take the freecard on the turn when he missed his flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, if he's prone to do this often, c/raise the turn! Get e.body out! i would want to give a free river card though.

I think other people would recommend re-raising this flop. You can get others out sooner and build a pot that you are a favourite to win. People fear flushes, but they only hit about 1/3 of the time!

[onegymrat]

Hi Walker,

I think with the field of callers on a draw rich board, your best play is to three-bet. CO actually did you a favor, in an odd way. Betting the flop is fine, but I would have loved to check-raise this flop to thin the field. However, you just can't be sure it would get checked to a LP bettor instead of checked around. So this situation is similar. Your reraise will also help define the rest of your opponents' hands, while putting pressure on them to chase for two more bets.

This is one of those situations in 4/8 play that will come up frequently, where you'll have to be able to play optimally postflop. Keep in mind you may very well be ahead still, but if you're going to get outdrawn, don't let them do it for cheap.

[W. Deranged]

This is an easy three-bet regardless of the suit of your A.

There is nothing else really to do here if you have any hope of possibly protecting your hand. You are likely way ahead of all the flop callers. There is no reason to do something silly like call and check-raise the turn to increase your protection, because if your opponent is raising a draw and the turn checks behind you're in horrible shape.

[Borodog]

There is no way in hell I raise AQo in the blinds after 6 limpers.

[silkyslim]

[ QUOTE ]
oops--too late to edit


I just wanted to note that I saw CO raise the nut flush draw in a similar spot (tons of opponents and last to act), and he didn't take the freecard on the turn when he missed his flush.

[/ QUOTE ]
call, c/r turn. big pot, everyone basically has odds to call on the flop. Face them with 2 big bets on the turn.

[Felipe]

I KNEW IT. I had a strong suspicion that you'd get mixed answers. "3bet the flop" and "call and c/raise the turn".

I see value in both answers. And it depends.

I reraise the flop if my opponents are VERY loose and weak. But I c/raise the turn if I'm am very sure that I can land one on the turn.

A free card, as mentioned earlier, on the turn is disasterous, but it would be the right play I think. Giving a free card in a big pot is a (big) mistake. To c/raise, you need a good read, such as the guy doesn't bet draws hard on the flop, and he likes to bet when checked too, and he's an aggressive player. All of these reads will lead me to call flop and c/r turn.

Without these reads, you might as well get the immediate pay off and re-raise the flop.

GOOD preflop raise! AQo is a good hand and will win more than it share (BY FAR!!) against weak loose limpers. NOT RAISING THIS is bad. I don't like to raise AJ, or KQ in the SB or BB preflop unless they are suited. Ako and AQo definately need a raise preflop from all positions. They are two "BEST!" non pair offsuit hands! There are only 13/169 wired pairs in hold'em (wired pairs are a wee bit better of preflop than a top non-pair hand). that leaves 159/169 non-pair hands. That means you are ahead of 157 hands that they might have!!! THAT'S A HUGE EDGE! The ratio of non-pair hands to wired pairs is approx 12.23:1. That means it is 12 times more likely your opponent has a non-pair hand than a paired one. AK is the best non-pair hand! AQo is just 2nd to that.

Raise AQo preflop! You'll more than your fair share. That's limit hold'em

[speirs]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way in hell I raise AQo in the blinds after 6 limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I thought

[Felipe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is no way in hell I raise AQo in the blinds after 6 limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I thought

[/ QUOTE ]

You agree with playing AQ this way?

[ErrantNight]

posting well i see

[BigBrother]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an easy three-bet regardless of the suit of your A.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, you have to jam it while you are still ahead. You want to drive out the weak hand that might river some cheesy 2-pair on you, (and charge the loosies chasing their back-door draw).

And you like money.

I think the pf raise is debateable, but that's another topic.

[MCS]

I 3-bet to try to knock people out here. If I don't, then I scowl and pray for a good turn card. I really don't want to have the turn get checked through if a safe card comes off, which makes me lean towards 3-betting now rather then planning a turn checkraise which might not work.

Which isn't to say I wouldn't ever checkraise the turn if I 3-bet here, but I think a 3-bet is still correct.

And I like your preflop raise.