Screen name change (fatskiis) And some long (LC) expatiation

[w_alloy]

So i just hit 100k hands at shorthanded, and decided now was as good a time as any to change screenames. The name is fatskiis. I have prolly 45k hands since party split, half at 5/10 half at 10/20 (all the 10/20 this month). Any comments on anything would be appreciated.

(summary at bottom)
I have been continually astounded at how many mistakes I continue to make. I recently tried to record a video but there was so many hands played obviously incorrectly that I felt there was no reason to post it. I tried a few more times and the same thing happened. I have always had a problem with this, but I assumed it would get better with experience. I have, but hardly. If I had to put a number on it, maybe 6 hands per 100 I feel were obviously misplayed, and probably 1.5 per 100 big mistakes like this one (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3928484&an=0&page=0#Post 3928484). This isnt to say I havent been winning. I am obviously running well, at around 3 BB/100 over my last 60k. Which brings me to my next question.

I am finally starting to make real money at this, and am unsure where to go from here. I have 1500 BBs for 10/20 even though I moved up less then 2 weeks ago. I started playing in march after reading HEPFAP in february. I knew virtually nothing about poker before this year. I started playing seriously only in august. I havent run as well as I am making it sound, I was lucky to fall into a winning style immediately and have had 2 300BB+ downswings. I only just turned 20 and am in college, which I am not enjoying (well the school part anyways). I am seriously thinking about making a (temporary?) career out of this, as I feel I have the skillset to succeed at high limits. It seems 10/20 6m is more profitable then 15/30 full or short. 30/60 is very scary. 20/40 would seem like the logical choice, but I am hesitant because I dont love full and the higher sh games seem very tough. Also, I still have a TON to learn and am risk-averse.

Lastly, have recently considered making some small metagame changes to my game that seem slightly out of line with what most here would agree with. Inpired partly by the DERB and partly by some meditation on Shania, I am calling down way lighter then I used to. I think making some slightly -EV call downs might refund itself. I'm not talking about anything major, my WTSD over this period has been around 40 (my other stats 27.5/18/2.2). For example, I rarely fold A high against standard 10/20 opponents when they call from the BB (or SB or elsewhere if they are loose) and the flop comes raggy or paired. If it is both I never fold. The other small derbish change has been rarely capping some hands preflop against tags I normally would never cap, like 88 or QJs, after I get 3 bet. By rarely I mean around 10%. Lastly, I have started playing quite loose preflop against bad opponents. Some examples would be limping (maybe raising depending on blinds) with hands like Ax, Q7 or even J7s on the button after a 70+ vpip limps, as long as I have a good read of him postflop and he sucks. Another would be 3 betting from the button the top 20%-25% hands after a 50%+ att. steal player raises from CO, especially if I have a good read postflop. I think I might break even or lose moeny on some of these plays but the advertisment of 3 betting with KTs seems to be worth it. The thing about these metagame changes is they seem a bit contradictory. I am trying to decrease my action with the 1st, and increase it with the others. However, a closer look reveals that the specific main objectives of each point do not clash.

...Anyways, sorry for rambling so long and so many question. To summarize:
1) Comments on player sn=fatskiis?
2) How many mistakes do you think you make /100? is 6 way too high?
3) What to do after 10/20? Any general advice for someone in my situation?
4) What do we think about slightly -EV plays for metagame at 10/20+? Which plays specifically are best?

[challenger84]

(fatskiis is button)

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, CO calls.

Turn: (16 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, CO calls, Button calls.

River: (28 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 32 BB

fatskiis has AJo

I wouldn't recommend moving up anytime soon if you are still making plays as boneheaded at the ones in this hand (this was two days ago.)

I would like an explanation on the preflop cap.

[w_alloy]

I dont think I made any large mistakes in that hand.

Preflop I think is good, with postion and the 2 other loose players in. The BB was 72% vpip over a large number of hands and UTG was like 53/26 and I had never seen him limp a strong hand preflop over like 4-500 hands. I get some more controll over the hand which is very good in position, add a tad of deception, and prolly have equity anyways.

Flop call is marginal and the closest play in the hand. I was getting 11 to 1, with 4 nut outs. My implied odds are crazy. If it gets capped behind me, my odds are only 1:8 but again my implied odds are even better and the chances of it getting capped arent high (although if it gets capped people prolly have redraws).

When it came back to me again, I like my cap. How often does this need to buy me a free card to be correct? The pot is now truly gigantic and I will be getting good odds on the turn. I think this buys me a free card often enough. I am losing something like 1/2 a SB for a 25% (i think its actually higher, you could easily have KTs, AK, or even KQ and slow down, or could have a better hand try to c/r me) chance to save myself at least 2 SB on the turn.

Turn call is obvious, getting 11:1 with a double gutter.

I really dont want to be the person who asks for help then argues with good advice. But I dont think my play in this hand was bad.

[bugstud]

we've played a bunch recently. I don't remember anything concrete

[JohnnyHumongous]

you raised turn...

[w_alloy]

[ QUOTE ]

you raised turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm button, not hero

[challenger84]

I didn't mean to sound harsh, but maybe it came off that way because I was a little bitter about losing that giant pot. I think the pf cap was marginal at best, the first flop call was not good considering the likelyhood of a 3bet/cap when you have only 4-6 likely outs at best. The flop cap after it came back to you was borderline retarded, as you get a free card approximately never, and don't have nearly enough equity to put money in the pot. I also remember some other plays from that session that were very questionable, maybe I'll try to find them if I have time later.

Edit: I also didn't remember you having the double gutter on the turn which makes it slightly less bad.

[w_alloy]

[ QUOTE ]

I didn't mean to sound harsh, but maybe it came off that way because I was a little bitter about losing that giant pot. I think the pf cap was marginal at best, the first flop call was not good considering the likelyhood of a 3bet/cap when you have only 4-6 likely outs at best. The flop cap after it came back to you was borderline retarded, as you get a free card approximately never, and don't have nearly enough equity to put money in the pot. I also remember some other plays from that session that were very questionable, maybe I'll try to find them if I have time later.


[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt think you meant anything personal. I would really like more opinions on this, because I think my preflop cap is good, and all the other plays you mention marginal at worst.

[Joe Tall]

I would really like more opinions on this, because I think my preflop cap is good, and all the other plays you mention marginal at worst.

You aren't gaining any overlay from AJo in a 3-way pot by capping preflop. Especially when the SB is a solid player 3-betting.

You are sandwiched on the flop between the preflop agressor and a raiser. You capped preflop and got bet into on a K high flop, do you feel the SB is just joking??

Your play in this hand is horrible.

[w_alloy]

[ QUOTE ]
ou aren't gaining any overlay from AJo in a 3-way pot by capping preflop. Especially when the SB is a solid player 3-betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop is good. The pot is huge, I gain folding equity, controll of the hand, and have position.

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 25.2260 % [ 00.23 00.03 ] { AJo }
Hand 2: 33.4007 % [ 00.31 00.02 ] { AA-77, AKs-A9s, KQs-KJs, AKo-ATo, KQo }
Hand 3: 21.2617 % [ 00.20 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-K2s, QJs-Q4s, JTs-J5s, T9s-T6s, T3s, 98s-96s, 87s-86s, 82s, 76s, 74s, 65s, AKo-A2o, KQo-K5o, QJo-Q7o, JTo-J8o, J4o, J2o, T9o-T8o, 98o-97o, 93o, 87o, 63o }
Hand 4: 20.1116 % [ 00.19 00.01 ] { TT, 66-22, A7s-A2s, KTs-K2s, QJs-Q4s, JTs-J5s, T9s-T6s, T2s, 98s-96s, 87s-86s, 83s, 76s, 65s, 62s, 54s, AKo, A6o-A2o, KTo-K2o, QJo-Q6o, JTo-J6o, T9o-T7o, T3o, 98o-97o, 87o, 85o, 73o }

[ QUOTE ]

You are sandwiched on the flop between the preflop agressor and a raiser. You capped preflop and got bet into on a K high flop, do you feel the SB is just joking??

Your play in this hand is horrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets say when I am faced with my first flop decision that if I hit my hand the pot will average 22BBs and it will cost me an average of 1.5BBs to see the turn. 1.5/22 is .068; 4/47 is .085. I think the odds I split or lose after making the nut straight are mitigated by the odds I make another hand and win. Saying this is horrendous it rediculous. The flop cap is at most a 1/8 sb mistake, do you also think that it buys me a free card never? Coldcalling then capping doesnt set of alarm bells for you? You would NEVER c/r a turn after this? This needs to buy me a free card like 12% to be good.

Edit: This hand is interesting but I dont want this thread to be only about this.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
The pot is huge, I gain folding equity

[/ QUOTE ]

When the pot is huge you do not gain folding equity.

Good luck with the rest.

[w_alloy]

[ QUOTE ]

When the pot is huge you do not gain folding equity.

Good luck with the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is rediculous to say that I dont gain folding equity relative to the size of the pot with this cap. Outright folding equity is not relivent. My range with this cap, especially from the eyes of this sb, is cut by 75%.

It seems you are convinced I am wrong and dont see it worth your while to bring me to the light. I find your posts mildly insulting and would appreciate it if you could expound on your opinion.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

When the pot is huge you do not gain folding equity.

Good luck with the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is rediculous to say that I dont gain folding equity relative to the size of the pot with this cap. Outright folding equity is not relivent. My range with this cap, especially from the eyes of this sb, is cut by 75%.

It seems you are convinced I am wrong and dont see it worth your while to bring me to the light. I find your posts mildly insulting and would appreciate it if you could expound on your opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

By making the pot 16SB's preflop you drastically reduce any amount of folding equity you have. You also put yourself in the uncomfortable position of calling of the majority of your stack, either correctly or close to correctly, because you bloated the pot so much incorrectly preflop.

Rob

[w_alloy]

Thanks for the reply Entity, however this [ QUOTE ]


By making the pot 16SB's preflop you drastically reduce any amount of folding equity you have.

[/ QUOTE ] Is only repeating what Joe said and I already disagreed with. The only thing this can possibly do for me is get me to think about it more. I have, and still can't figure out where you are both comming from. If you could be more specific here I would appreciate it.

[ QUOTE ]
You also put yourself in the uncomfortable position of calling of the majority of your stack, either correctly or close to correctly, because you bloated the pot so much incorrectly preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only things I can imagine you are talking about are variance and making it tougher to play postflop. I dont think it makes it tougher to play, and I dont mind the variance.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Is only repeating what Joe said and I already disagreed with. The only thing this can possibly do for me is get me to think about it more. I have, and still can't figure out where you are both comming from. If you could be more specific here I would appreciate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't be much more specific than that. In a 16SB pot when you're unable to face the field with two cold, the hope of folding any hands that aren't drawing stone cold dead is an illusion at best. In addition, you're overstating your equity, especially against a 3-bet from the small blind from a TAGGY player. Against a liberal 3-bet range (88+,ATs+,KQs,ATo+,KQo), you're looking at your hand being exactly break-even equity wise at showdown. You aren't exploiting a preflop equity edge that's worth exploiting, and furthermore, you're making the entire hand be about 'showdown' poker. In this case, you forced yourself into marginal decisions on the flop and the turn by capping a hand preflop that didn't give you much of an equity edge in a best-case scenario. How great is that?

Rob

Doesnt seem bad though. I think its marginal but probably somewhat profitable.

[blackize]

Joe told you that the preflop cap was bad because you have little or no extra equity over the others in the hand.

Entity told you that by incorrectly bloating the pot preflop you are decreasing the likelihood anyone is folding AND decreasing the impact of your mistakes later in the hand.

AJ is not a particularly strong hand against a 3 bettor although it does look better since the BB is 3betting and he could be doing this with a slightly larger range than usual.

Your flop cap is horrid. After the preflop 3 bet from the BB and his lead/3 bet on the flop his mostly likely hands become AA KK AK QQ JJ TT. Your cap gains you nothing. From here out the hand becomes easy to play since you picked up a stronger draw on the turn, but if you don't play this hand like a donkey preflop almost all of your decisions become bad.

[Entity]

I was so focused on preflop and your flop coldcall I didn't notice how bad your flop cap was. God it's terrible. Really really really really really bad poker. Did you consider trying handreading? You've got a 3.15 outer in a worst case scenario, or a 4 outer in a best case scenario. It should be clear there are no free cards to be had here.

Rob

[w_alloy]

This is really starting to anger me.

[ QUOTE ]
Joe told you that the preflop cap was bad because you have little or no extra equity over the others in the hand.

Entity told you that by incorrectly bloating the pot preflop you are decreasing the likelihood anyone is folding AND decreasing the impact of your mistakes later in the hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

I dont understand why you are saying this. If it is in response to what I said about the first sentence of Entity's post echoing what Joe Tall already said, you misread something.

[ QUOTE ]
AJ is not a particularly strong hand against a 3 bettor although it does look better since the BB is 3betting and he could be doing this with a slightly larger range than usual.


[/ QUOTE ]

He was in the SB. I would really appreciate it if all future references to my preflop equity directly address mine or some other pokerstove calculation. I think my equity is about 25% any way you slice it, making the equity arguement mute from both sides.

[ QUOTE ]
Your flop cap is horrid. After the preflop 3 bet from the BB and his lead/3 bet on the flop his mostly likely hands become AA KK AK QQ JJ TT. Your cap gains you nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

He never slows down with QQ or JJ (which btw I dont think are a significant part of his range, but for the sake of arguing with you). He never slows down with AK? He NEVER c/r AA or KK?

[ QUOTE ]
if you don't play this hand like a donkey preflop almost all of your decisions become bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

How exactly was my preflop cap so horrible again? All you said about it was some inconclusive talk about my equity.

I dont mean to come off as abrasive, but I dont understand the reasoning behind anything in this post.

[istewart]

By capping with such a slim equity edge you're not gaining much or anything preflop and you're minimizing the mistakes your opponents can make postflop.

[w_alloy]

Jesus you have a strong opinion on this. Is he leading out with these hands 85%+ percent of the time? After I coldcall/cap? Since this is so subjective I'll concede this point; we dont need to discuss it anymore.

Can someone please address something besides this hand?

[admiralfluff]

I haven't played with you in a while, but my notes on you say that you dependably overplay strong overs on the flop.

[Joe Tall]

Ok, let's break this down for you:

AJo is not a stong enough hand where you are gaining preflop equity (overlay) in a 3-way pot by capping. You can run all the showdown-sims you want and quote them. You just aren't geting it w/AJo, it's been discussed here for years, the programs have been run, the calcualations made, it ain't happening.

Now a quiz about folding equity:

#1: Your opponent has a 3 outer in a 16BB pot, his action?

#2: Your opponent has a 3 outer in a 3BB pot, his action?

Which hand is he likely to fold?

(Hint: in hand #2, the pot is smaller)

[ArturiusX]

walloy, I'm not sure why I'm posting this after seeing your response, but I've pegged you as an overaggressive erratic, but tagish player.

You seem to make weird moves often. According to this thread, that backs up the kind of player you are.


I think you suffer from FPS.

[w_alloy]

The discussion is not helped by your quizes like this, but what the hell, I'll make another.

Now a quiz about folding equity:

#1 you are SB with AQ, the flop is 962r, the pot is 12sb 4 way, everyone has checked except the button who bets, his range is A8+, 66+, KT+, etc. Your action?

#2 you are SB with AQ, the flop is 962r, the pot is 16sb 4 way, everyone has checked except the button who bets, his range is AA-JJ, AQ+. Your action?

This has gotten silly. I think its close and doesnt matter much. FWIW in the same situation if I did it it would be for metagame because apparently capping with AJ make people think you play very poorly, which is a good image against TAGs.

I dont see how so many people can say this is horrible. As Skalnsky once said, it is important to be able to recognize a difference between large mistakes and obvious mistakes.

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
This is really starting to anger me.

Quote:
Joe told you that the preflop cap was bad because you have little or no extra equity over the others in the hand.

Entity told you that by incorrectly bloating the pot preflop you are decreasing the likelihood anyone is folding AND decreasing the impact of your mistakes later in the hand.




I dont understand why you are saying this. If it is in response to what I said about the first sentence of Entity's post echoing what Joe Tall already said, you misread something.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am saying this because you keep defending your preflop cap. Even your own pokerstove estimations which I think are underestimating the SB's 3betting range give you only 25% equity. Bloating the pot also makes it correct for your opponents to chase longshot draws.

[ QUOTE ]
He was in the SB. I would really appreciate it if all future references to my preflop equity directly address mine or some other pokerstove calculation. I think my equity is about 25% any way you slice it, making the equity arguement mute from both sides.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your estimation makes the SB 3 betting quite a bit light I think. And even if your equity is 25% then the point isn't moot either. You are still giving minimizing your opponents mistakes.

[ QUOTE ]

He never slows down with QQ or JJ (which btw I dont think are a significant part of his range, but for the sake of arguing with you). He never slows down with AK? He NEVER c/r AA or KK?

[/ QUOTE ]

Never is a very strong word, but it certainly isn't the 12% you estimate you need. I left JJ and QQ in there, but I don't think they play the flop this aggressively. So I agree they aren't a significant part of his range making your play even worse since you should be weighting his hand range much higher. Going for the checkraise against a player who obviously likes his hand(preflop cap, flop cap) is fancy play syndrome, and I don't think you can count on that nearly as often as you need to to make capping the flop a good option.

[Joe Tall]

You aren't HU. You really think capping 4-way w/AJo is going to get ALL of them to fold a 962r flop. Like I said before then came back to help; good luck with all of that.

[whodaman]

i only had a few hands verse you but you played well. You are like me in that you like to raise, but i didn't catch you doing anything too bad. My guess is that your a solid winner at both limits unless you tilt like a mofo.

[w_alloy]

After a lot of yoga, I agree that the preflop cap was bad. Thank you for bringing me to the light.

This hand is a good example of my mistakes and Shania plays.
Can someone answer the mistakes question in my op? Is this amount of mistakes anywhere near normal?

[Victor]

i played with you a bunch and you spewed a few times. overall you play good tho and i think many of you plays were cuz you thought i was nutso.

[kross]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Comments on player sn=fatskiis?

[/ QUOTE ]
I have no strategic advice. Just wanted to point out, the plural of ski is skis, not skiis.

[Victor]

nice hit lucky.

[Victor]

i have no doubt that you play good blackize.

[Victor]

i have a note on you. i know it bc i remember typing. i dont remember waht it was tho. something like, "donked flush draw into pf raiser in multiway pot." i could be wrong. i am very interested now.

[bugstud]

he c/r'ed his vs me. also defended my button steal and sb cc with q7o. I dunno.

[Surfbullet]

hey w alloy,

1) haven't played post-split. Sorry.

2) I make a pretty decent amount of mistakes. I take note of hands that I feel were misplayed and review them after sessions - many end up being okay but I do make a few per 100. Not sure exactly how many on average but it's a not-insignificant amount. As long as we learn from them you can't sweat it...perfect poker is an illusion, we just have to do the best we can with the information we've got at the time.3

3) How many hands at 10/20? 100k hands overall for shorthanded really isn't that many... and as i'm sure you know winrates take forever to converge. I'm happy you've been running well but it's a little early to feel like you've conquered 10/20 and need to race up the limits, especially considering your self-acknowledged mistakes. I'd recommend studying your game and logging more hands at 10/20 - definitely take shots at higher limits to try and keep building your roll, though.

4) I think playing good, aggressive poker will often leave you looking like a complete idiot. This is great for shania /images/graemlins/grin.gif. I wouldn't worry about consciously trying to create an image through sligly -EV plays, especially b/c most opponents won't notice.

5) As a recent college graduate turned poker "pro," i'd recommend staying in school and building your roll through logging tons of hands. Your personal expenses should be pretty low so you can really get your roll to grow - take a long view and work on getting that bankroll up and start to invest what's extra. I wish I got into online poker before my last year of school or so, now that I have monthly expenses it's slowed my roll's growth.

Good luck,

Surf

[Victor]

quiting college is incredibly dumb. you have 4 yrs to do as much dumb stuff as possibly. why would cut that short? that you are even considering it shows that you have a poor understanding of fev.

[w_alloy]

Thanks for a great reply surf.

In response to 3, I definitely know I havent conquered 10/20. I have only 25k hands there, and know that my winrate is next to meaningless over this sample size. It sounds like you have a good grasp of my situation and what I was trying to ask, and thanks for the advice.

In response to 5, and moreso to Victor's last post; I am definetly not going to outright quit college, and am in a very peculiar situation for reasons I dont wish to mention. I was a bit ambiguous and possibly misleading in my op. Dont worry about me. Thanks for the advice though. What did you mean by fev BTW?

In response to Bugstud, isnt calling with Q7o there pretty standard as long as the SB is looseish? I wouldn't note it anyways.

This thread was looking like a disaster, but has definitely shaped up. Awaiting more responses on how many mistakes people make /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[bugstud]

ehhh it's profitable hot and cold but you generally have a big problem with it postflop, especially against a spraytard like me.

[baronzeus]

stop arguing with everyone else about this hand. your flop cap is effing awful. i see uglier things almost never. your preflop cap isnt the worst thing in teh world but its totally unnecessary.

once the flop hits and you see SB betting into a huge field on a KTx board you have to think "hmmmm.monster."
so break down each call EV wise. considerign SB has been going at it the whole way there is no reason to think he won't 3bet the flop and the turn. EVERY STREET was -EV in this hand, except the river, which is probably because you have the nuts, and a blind monkey could correctly play the river.


sorry for being mean. i just think tough love is gonna make you better. and im glad to hear you're running well.

[w_alloy]

[ QUOTE ]

stop arguing with everyone else about this hand

[/ QUOTE ]

I argue because this is the only way I learn /images/graemlins/blush.gif. I have a problem just accepting what other people say.

[ QUOTE ]

sorry for being mean. i just think tough love is gonna make you better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely understand; thanks for the post.

[Nietzsche]

I think Shania becomes way more important when you play the same players all the time like they do in 30/60 where DERB plays. At 10/20 I think it can be dangerous territory to move into unless the -EV plays you make are super close to EV neutral.

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
Lastly, I have started playing quite loose preflop against bad opponents. Some examples would be limping (maybe raising depending on blinds) with hands like Ax, Q7 or even J7s on the button after a 70+ vpip limps, as long as I have a good read of him postflop and he sucks. Another would be 3 betting from the button the top 20%-25% hands after a 50%+ att. steal player raises from CO, especially if I have a good read postflop. I think I might break even or lose moeny on some of these plays but the advertisment of 3 betting with KTs seems to be worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, advertising yourself as overaggressive gets you extra value when you're best...but it also means you won't be winning very often without the best hand.

This may sound fine right now; but wait until you're running bad...

[tolbiny]

"You would NEVER c/r a turn after this?"

why would a tag check raise this turn? there are two loose players inbetween (one who has raised his hand once as well)- c/r is the last play on my mind- i want to bet out/three bet with my strong hands here, not checkraise.

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
(fatskiis is button)

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, CO calls.

Turn: (16 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, CO calls, Button calls.

River: (28 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 32 BB

fatskiis has AJo

I wouldn't recommend moving up anytime soon if you are still making plays as boneheaded at the ones in this hand (this was two days ago.)

[/ QUOTE ]


Ouch. Still even though Im drunk, that hand still does not look good. Thats pretty bad, actually.

PS. I really wanted to say: Oh snap, that bitch is ugly.
But that might be a little harsh, I just wanted to say it...nothing against u.