Hand...

[krishanleong]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP1 (t1460)
MP2 (t1480)
MP3 (t1420)
<font color="#C00000">CO (t1540)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Hero (t1450)</font>
SB (t1500)
BB (t1500)
UTG (t1650)
UTG+1 (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t20, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO calls t20, Hero calls t20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (t90) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets t40</font>, Hero calls t40, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: (t170) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets t100</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t400</font>, CO calls t300.

River: (t970) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t320</font>, CO calls t320.

Final Pot: t1610

No reads... It's a 5 dollar STT. It's early in the tourny. My questions are, how is the flop call. What is a good amount to raise on the turn? Is flat calling an option? Should I have checked the river or bet a different amount? Thanks,

Krishan

[krishanleong]

one bump.

If you guys ever start playing short handed limit poker I promise to respond to your threads in kind. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Krishan

[splashpot]

I would have folded QJo preflop. Even on the button. Drawing hands go way down in value in STTs. I know this is Stars where the structure is a lot slower, but QJo isn't even a strong drawing hand.

The flop call looks fine. On the turn, I'd raise exactly as you did, but with the intention of seeing a free showdown when you miss the straight draw. So I'd have checked the river.

[HesseJam]

I also would also have checked the river.

Your value bet actually was not too bad but very, very read dependent. I would do this only against a known calling station as there would not be many players to call this down to the end with a weaker hands than yours. Also, I would really absolutely HATE to face a reraise there where I would have to fold if it's all-in to me.

[bones]

Check the river. Now about me being stuck $300 at 10/20 (6)..

[bawcerelli]

this is an easy fold preflop. since you called, i'd call the flop, raise the turn to only 300, and check the river through if you don't improve.

[durron597]

I think this hand was played perfectly except that Hero should have checked the river - and I think that betting is not a large mistake.

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this hand was played perfectly except that Hero should have checked the river - and I think that betting is not a large mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you okay with his preflop call?

[wuwei]

In a 1500 chip game, I have no problem with seeing a flop on the button with QJ.

Flop looks great.

I like the turn as well. Amount is fine, I'd raise around 250.

I would have checked behind on the river. The turn call means either:

1. He is still drawing.
2. The fact that you're representing a Q doesn't bother him.
3. He doesn't believe that you have a Q.

It's possible this is an easy value bet in a $5 stt, but I'd check it down. No need to push a marginal hand like TPGK, and I like the benefit of seeing my opponent's hand early on in the game.

[HesseJam]

To make that clear: It is not an easy value bet! It is, under certain circumstances, not a bad mistake either, maybe it even shows a small profit. All-in-all I would check behind in most (80-90%) cases. But just yesterday I played against a calling station where the value bet might have made sense.

The clear default play for me would be checking behind.

[HesseJam]

[ QUOTE ]
In a 1500 chip game, I have no problem with seeing a flop on the button with QJ.



[/ QUOTE ]

I see it the same.

[bawcerelli]

limping QJo here has got to be a leak. someone please correct me if i'm losing value here by not limping.

[HesseJam]

Right, raising to 60-100 is often the better play here. You are the button and you want to represent strength.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
Right, raising to 60-100 is often the better play here. You are the button and you want to represent strength.

[/ QUOTE ]
This can't be right. Especially in a $5.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
limping QJo here has got to be a leak. someone please correct me if i'm losing value here by not limping.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I recommend reading this thread. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=862129&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb =5&amp;o=) The post is referring to limit ring games, but the concepts are relevant.

Is this a leak? It depends on how well you play postflop. Taken by itself, limping when you have position on the field for roughly 1/100th of your stack cannot be that big of a leak. As long as you don't spew chips postflop, calling is clear.

This hand should also reinforce the important of the button. Look at what happened to our hero. He picked up one of the flops we like to see when we limp QJo. We have an oesd draw to the nuts and two overcards. We have position on the field, so we can decide the best course of action after everyone has acted.

How about another scenario? Lets say the flop is Qxx. Checked to us. Easy bet, right? Throw out 3/4 pot and see what people do. What if on this flop we see a pot sized bet from the BB and a call from the CO? Do we have to get involved? Nope...

Or how about a J high flop with a flush draw where everyone checks to the CO who puts out a 3/4 pot sized bet. What's your action now? Call? Raise? Fold? These are the tougher hands. The only way to improve your skills postflop is to practice, and there's no better place to do that than for 15 chips on the button.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
limping QJo here has got to be a leak. someone please correct me if i'm losing value here by not limping.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this a leak? It depends on how well you play postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wuwei made almost exactly the same post I would have, but better. I just want to reinforce the point by saying that limping behind here with deepish stacks and QJo is +EV if you play well postflop, and -EV if you do not.

[krishanleong]

Thanks for all the replies. Villian had Q5o for 2 pair but I busted him later. When I raised the turn it was with the intention of taking the free showdown. But my limit instincts made me value bet the river which I agree is incorrect. (Though in retrospect, if I had the read I developed by the end of the tourny, I probably would have been correct to value bet that river) Thanks much for the advice.

Krishan

Reraise flop. With two overcards and OESD, good time for semi-bluff.

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
Look at what happened to our hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

he played top pair medium kicker and lost half his stack.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Look at what happened to our hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

he played top pair medium kicker and lost half his stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would have lost less if they didn't bet the river.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Look at what happened to our hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

he played top pair medium kicker and lost half his stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe I wasted five minutes of my life responding to your question.

Obviously the results of this one hand invalidate everything I said.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
this is an easy fold preflop. since you called, i'd call the flop, raise the turn to only 300, and check the river through if you don't improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would rather play QJ w/ 2 limpers in L1 on button than AJs UTG same level. This is an EASY call PF...FWIW I like the rest of it too (except river).