What is your sixth street play?

[lstream]

Maybe this is obvious? Both villains are too loose for their own good, which may partially explain the fifth street bet.

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (converter (http://j.1asphost.com/greenage))

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/club.gif___brings-in
Seat 3: xx xx T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls
Hero: T/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls

4th Street - (3.10 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks
Seat 2: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks
Seat 4: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks
Seat 5: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks
Seat 6: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks
Hero: T/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks

5th Street - (1.55 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif___checks___raises
Seat 6: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___folds
Hero: T/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif___bets___calls

6th Street - (7.55 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif___checks
Seat 5: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets
Hero: T/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif___???

[beta1607]

This is an interesting spot. I think I am going to call this down, I think the downside of being behind far outways the upside when you are ahead.

I would raise here. A three is dead and it is likely a 5 is dead also, since the better looks to have a straight and can only do so with another 5. If you raise you will get called by the 5 seat and also the 4 seat. I just don't think he is full, and if you agree with that, the best choice is to maximize your win with a raise on 6th. That's is at least what I would do here. And they will both call you to the river. Hopefully the 4 seat won't fill up with his hidden pair.

Automatic raise. Don't even think about just calling. The 3355 would have to be playing very strange to be full here, and if he is, just give him the $. He likely has just the 2 pair, or maybe 3 pair, and you don't want him to try and draw out on you for one bet. If you don't raise this spot, play bingo.

Why are you uncertain what about this one? What did you actually do?

[benwood]

I like the call, myself. If seat 4 raises, I will lay my hand down to his full house. But the chance of this happening is very slim. I don't mind keeping him in to try his 2 card draw. I will wait until the river to raise.

[frappeboy]

Definitely raise 6th street to prevent the 2 pair from getting the correct odds to draw to a full house. If he makes it 3 bets fold.

if you bet on fifth with nothing against that many loose players....

I'd raise sixth because that (appeared) straight isn't going anywhere. If the two pair guy has one of the only two cards in the hole (one 3 is dead and that other guy is representing a 5 in his hand) [Also I don't think he has three 3's] I'd be surprised. I doubt the straight is folding so I'd raise--it's way easier getting an extra bet from someone who has any outs and might suckout on you.

Or just call and raise the river (but I can't see two pair calling that)

Here's raise scenario
straight extra bet

call scenario raise river
two extra bets potentially (from the two pair guy and one from the straight guy on the river)

I don't know how often that the latter will happen unless I have at least a decent read on that player.

edit--I think the two pair guy has three pair and I would want that to pay to catch.

[benwood]

Frappeboy: You don't have to raise to keep seat 4 from getting proper odds. He's only on a 2 card draw if seat 5 has a straight, which he obviously does. The raise will likely drive him out, but you will add more + EV by letting him make the bad call. Right?

[ QUOTE ]
Frappeboy: You don't have to raise to keep seat 4 from getting proper odds. He's only on a 2 card draw if seat 5 has a straight, which he obviously does. The raise will likely drive him out, but you will add more + EV by letting him make the bad call. Right?

[/ QUOTE ]\

He may have a pocket pair and have 4 outs.

He may call the double bet with whatever he has.

Not even close----Raise.

[frappeboy]

Funny hand.. I count 24 cards accounted for. If the villian doesnt have the full house already that makes 26 cards

52-26= 26 cards left with 2 outs thats 1 in 13. Although hes not getting proper odds, hes getting close to it if you take into account that he'll get atleast 1BB if not 2BB from each of you. Also, if there is a chance he has 3 pair you'd definitely want to raise. So you probably should raise here. Also you get the same amount of money from the smaller straight if he calls you down, with no chance of getting outdrawn.

You a basically dealing with a situation where your opponents are going to both make mistakes if you just call, but not all mistakes at created equal. 2 pair drawing to a full house is a small mistake, drawing dead is a big mistake. Therefore you have to raise here to try to get the bigger of the mistake.

[benwood]

There are 28 cards left. If he is on a 4 card draw, the pot odds against him are 6 to 1. If he is on a 2 card draw, the odds are 13 to 1. If you raise, you change the money odds to 9 1/2 to 1 from 8 1/2 to 1. Whether you raise or not, his pot odds are insufficient with the 2 card draw & sufficient with the 4 card draw.

[frappeboy]

Benwood,

Just think about it this way, if you call and the 2 pair calls, he is making a small mistake, probably costing himself around .2BB-.3BB per call. If you raise, the 2 pair folds, and the smaller straight calls, hes drawing dead so he makes a full big bet mistake. Which mistake is a bigger mistake? Clearly the call from the smaller straight. Also, you will never get outdrawn by going heads up against him, so your profit goes up and your standard deviation goes down.

[benwood]

It occurs to me that when you telegraph the fact with your raise that you can beat the small straight, seat 4 may lay down his 4 card draw with his 3 pair hand,putting you on a full house & think he is drawing dead, Yes. Now I like the raise best. Thank you for your analysis. Good hand. Ben

[lstream]

Just to add a little intrigue here - no one has correctly put seat 5 on his actual hand yet /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Just to add a little intrigue here - no one has correctly put seat 5 on his actual hand yet /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

A23 of hearts.

Interesting. Then perhaps he is rolled then, since I don't see any other 4's out there. And if that is the case, then there is another 5 left for the other person and the trips have a shot to take down your straight.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

am i the only person here that doesn't understand the 5th street bet?

[lstream]

So I ended up raising on sixth and both opponents called. It was checked to me on the river - I bet. Seat 4 folded and seat 5 called with 8's and 4's /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Andy B]

Haven't read the results yet. Interesting. I don't like the bet on fifth street. This appears to be a very loose game, so you're not going to get everyone to fold. As of fifth street, you have seen 21 cards. Six of the remaining 31 cards will give you a straight, about 4:1 against. If you thought everyone would call, and that your straight would be good almost every time, you'd have a bet for value. That's quite a parlay, though. I don't think you'll get everyone to fold or everyone to call, so I think you're best off taking the free card.

On sixth, I think you have to raise. Clearly, you have the bettor beaten. It's possible that the third man is full, but

1 a Trey is gone and and it's fairly likely that a Five is gone as well and
2) he's checked.

There's enough money out there that it's worth protecting your hand with a raise. If he three-bets, you can probably safely fold.

[Andy B]

By raising, he cuts the third man's pot odds from 9.5:1 to a little more than 5:1 (10.5:2).