Laying down 88 pre-flop 3 handed

[lysis]

Hi Guys,

I played a 2 table No-Limit Hold 'Em Poker Stars tourney, and the following situation came up when it was 3 handed.

I am in the SB with 18070 in chips. BB has 4095, and button has 4835. I have been playing well, feel I have great control over my two opponents, and feel pretty confident that I'm gonna win.

Then I get dealt 8 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 8 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . The button makes a minimum raise, doubling the blind to 1200, leaving himself with 3635. Here I stopped to think for a long time and eventually folded.

I looked back on this later and wondered how others would have played the hand. The button can be considered a "normal" player, not overly aggressive or passive, even making a few nice plays through-out the tourney. I estimated his range of hands as being any A, KT or better king, perhaps a few queen suited/small gap hands, and certainly any pair.

lysis

[curtains]

You have a monster in this spot and an allin raise is automatic.... folding is just wrong. In a 3 player game a raise with a hand such as A7o in that spot sholud be automatic for him, and plenty of other hands that contain only one overcard. Even if you knew he had a hand like QJo, would he realy call you if you put him all in for 3200 more, and if he does call you is it really a big disaster?

[Ed S.]

How about pushing your chips all-in? Was that an option at that time? You have the chip lead and you cover their stacks with no problem. Put them to the test with 88 espcially 3-handed. If they have Aces and you don't improve then thats poker but I think you have the best hand pre-flop. Get your money in when the getting is good and you shall find yourself many of pots.


Ed S.

[Rickfish]

I would have set him all-in. He would be under pressure and may fold. They are probably both eyeing the money for 2nd place and will put down hands against you. If he does call and win you are still chip leader.

If I was one of the other 2 players I would be looking to knock out the other low stack and avoid you. That would give me guaranteed 2nd place and enough chips to take you on.

[JayKon]

What is it about final tables that turn us weak-tight? It happens all of the time (including to me). I suspect it is what seperates those of us from the ones that "Have the heart of a champion".

[ohkanada]

I usually would raise all-in. Unless just doubling the blinds was a new move that might imply a big hand.

Ken Poklitar

[lysis]

I guess no one likes the muck. Everyone so far raises all-in. I agree that all-in is the only alternative to the play I made. Calling was a terrible option.

Was my opponent making a move with just doubling the blinds? I didn't think so, I gave the range of hands he would do this with, I didn't think it was a move.

I half expected someone to make a comment summing up my opponents possible holdings and coming out with some EV number suggesting it was waay too positive EV to have mucked there.

The key issue for me at the time, was how well I was controlling the game. I knew that if could just maintain the status quo, then I would grind them down against each other, cause each of the other two was playing for 2nd at this point. I didn't want to risk doubling up one of my opponents, especially since if he calls, it's very like a 50/50 scenario. I felt that 50/50 was gonna be gambling, and I had no reason to do that, since I had everything the way I wanted it.

The muck reminded me of something I read a long time ago, by Sklansky, when he recommended mucking kings to a short-stack all-in when the tourney is down to two tables of 5, and you have the "big stack". Why? Cause you would rather it stay at 5, so you can continue to bully people with your big stack.

As the tourney progressed, I did exactly that, eventually getting the two of them down to around 2,000 each, and I managed to win the tourney pretty easily, with a slight double double-up scare when it got heads up, but nothing too scary.

The one comment that makes me think I made a mistake, was from RickFish, suggesting that the button was very likely not to call me with a lot of his hands, since he would be shooting for 2nd. I hadn't thought of that.

lysis