Cars... M3-- Oporutnity Cost...

[J-Lo]

The cost of cars is throught the roof!!! If u want to buy a $55,000 car and put down 30,000. Payments are still going to be $800+/month for 36 months. Does that not seem absurd? I'l be making 6 figures plus coming out of college, but spending $12,000/year on a car is quite preposterous. Or if u want to lease w/ $0 down it's still 12,000/year for 36 months with nothing to show for it. What kind of people out there prefer spending that kind of money on cars instead of the peace of mind of living in a paid off home which APPRECIATES!?!?!? What kind of people buy expensive cars-- and do they THINK about better ways to spend their money? I've always, always, always, wanted an M3, but now that i look at it... it seems like a ludacrous (sp) investment. I've thought about having a nice car for a few years, but then i'd be "hooked" and wouldn't be able to go back to $15k-20k cars... What is everyone else's view on cars and the kind of money people spend on them. Whenever i see a BMW 7-series i always think, "man that's awesome" But now i'm gona say, "man what an idiot to spend $100k+ on a car.

I guess my next car is gona be a Subaru WRX. Straight cash homey.

[Lazymeatball]

a Subaru WRX is my dream car. Aim low homie.

[Blarg]

I've always thought really expensive cars were pretty stupid, but then again I've never been in the position where the money was trivial to me.

I think that's the key. Here in L.A., people pretty much screw themselves over hard buying cars that are way too expensive to them, just slaves to their imagined social image. Then they live like crap in the rest of their lives because the car and the insurance breaks them. There's house-poor, which at least means you're working on increasing your capital and probably have a much better life overall, and then there's car-poor, which means you're just basically stupid.

I guess to me, cars in general should be minor expenses, not major ones. Kind of like what they say about yachts -- if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it. Being a slave to a depreciating asset is retarded and speaks of severe ego problems an difficulties in dealing with reality. But if you're making enormous bucks, then an expensive car makes more sense, if the rest of your finances are truly in order. But there's no reason that someone should be buying cars that are any strain on their budget unless they're making so little money that every car would be a strain, and they have no choice. Savings, investments, and home ownership should always rank far higher in importance than flashy crap, even cool flashy crap like neato cars that one can find all kinds of rationalizations for.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
I've always thought really expensive cars were pretty stupid, but then again I've never been in the position where the money was trivial to me.

I think that's the key. Here in L.A., people pretty much screw themselves over hard buying cars that are way too expensive to them, just slaves to their imagined social image. Then they live like crap in the rest of their lives because the car and the insurance breaks them. There's house-poor, which at least means you're working on increasing your capital and probably have a much better life overall, and then there's car-poor, which means you're just basically stupid.

I guess to me, cars in general should be minor expenses, not major ones. Kind of like what they say about yachts -- if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it. Being a slave to a depreciating asset is retarded and speaks of severe ego problems an difficulties in dealing with reality. But if you're making enormous bucks, then an expensive car makes more sense, if the rest of your finances are truly in order. But there's no reason that someone should be buying cars that are any strain on their budget unless they're making so little money that every car would be a strain, and they have no choice. Savings, investments, and home ownership should always rank far higher in importance than flashy crap, even cool flashy crap like neato cars that one can find all kinds of rationalizations for.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was gonna say something about guys who buy expensive cars having small penises, but that sums it up well.

[_Kevin_]

[ QUOTE ]
The cost of cars is throught the roof!!! If u want to buy a $55,000 car and put down 30,000. Payments are still going to be $800+/month for 36 months. Does that not seem absurd? I'l be making 6 figures plus coming out of college, but spending $12,000/year on a car is quite preposterous. Or if u want to lease w/ $0 down it's still 12,000/year for 36 months with nothing to show for it. What kind of people out there prefer spending that kind of money on cars instead of the peace of mind of living in a paid off home which APPRECIATES!?!?!? What kind of people buy expensive cars-- and do they THINK about better ways to spend their money? I've always, always, always, wanted an M3, but now that i look at it... it seems like a ludacrous (sp) investment. I've thought about having a nice car for a few years, but then i'd be "hooked" and wouldn't be able to go back to $15k-20k cars... What is everyone else's view on cars and the kind of money people spend on them. Whenever i see a BMW 7-series i always think, "man that's awesome" But now i'm gona say, "man what an idiot to spend $100k+ on a car.

I guess my next car is gona be a Subaru WRX. Straight cash homey.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's all a matter or priorities. I spend a fortune on cars because it's what I like. My motivation for getting a college degree was so I could buy expensive cars. My reward for having gotten my degrees is to buy what ever I want with the money I have left over after paying my bills and saving for retirement. I won't spend money I can't afford. We all have discretionary money, I chose to spend mine on cars.

FWIW, my daily driver is an M5. I can tell you that you will love the M3 if you get one.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Whenever i see a BMW 7-series i always think, "man that's awesome" But now i'm gona say, "man what an idiot to spend $100k+ on a car.


[/ QUOTE ]

As you get older, you will realize that there are more ways to look at things than two extremes. Thinking "nice car" is usually sufficient. Why does the guy have to either be "lucky" or "an idiot". Why does your view on the car have anything to do with the owner at all?

[J-Lo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whenever i see a BMW 7-series i always think, "man that's awesome" But now i'm gona say, "man what an idiot to spend $100k+ on a car.


[/ QUOTE ]

As you get older, you will realize that there are more ways to look at things than two extremes. Thinking "nice car" is usually sufficient. Why does the guy have to either be "lucky" or "an idiot". Why does your view on the car have anything to do with the owner at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

good point... people have different priorities... And some DO have more money than they know with what to do... Econ 101, the marginal utility they give up for the marginal gain they get is worth it to them... I'm more or less a "penny-pincher" as in, i'd rather buy a $1,000,000 home than a $100,000 car... mainly becaues i know i can recover the $1,000,000 investment in a home, but can't get ANY return on the investment of a car, besides the experience... To each his own...

I think it has to do with the way i was brought up... quite poor. Rareley had money to do "nice" things... Lived in absolute trash homes, (my parents bought a house w/o a front door. Afet we moved in, my dad went dumpster diving to find a door for our front/main entrace in a VERY low-income neighborhood-- Maywood, Illinois)... I would always save money that i got for "rainy days." And i would always "want" things that i couldn't afford. Now that i can affor them, i don't want 'em, weird how things work. My parents did move out of there, and now make enough to put 3 kids through college at the same time. after playing the game which shall remain nameless, i can buy whatever i want, but i choose not to. I'l buy myself nice clothes, a movado, computers/videogames, but i haven't spent any money on big ticket items... the satisfaction/peace of mind i get from saving money is worth more than an M3 to me...

Another reason i can't see myself spending $$$ on things is because of my friends. They are all in college, and don't make chit. Even after they graduate they won't be in the same league as me. One of 'em got offered $52/year at KPMG (50k base w/ 2k signing bonus and 15% raises each year). And that's considered MUCHO $$$ for a college grad w/ a CPA. I live similair to the way they do, xcept I can splurge once in a while. I need to evaluate the way i value money... I hold in too high a spot. Maybe when i get older, i'l be comfortable w/ a 60k car...

i mainly made this thread as a "jebus, cars are hella xpensive."

[Blarg]

You're much better off as a young guy having the independence of mind to not buy the most expensive car you can possibly afford. Most people even with very good incomes all their lives don't retire well at all, because people at every financial level generally blow their money about as fast as they take it in, if not faster.

For young guys, who generally are completely caught up in conforming to what everyone else is doing, competitive about all the wrong things, and who generally can't really picture the future long-term enough to live accordingly, the temptation to blow their cash on flash and gash is often near overwhelming. Think of what just a few years of interest on that money can do for you if you had invested it instead of blowing it. You're much better off being too conservative financially than the opposite.

The only thing is, it can be hard on the ego when everyone else is throwing their cash around, especially since that is often taken as a sort of virtue or proof of mensch-hood. And there's nearly always someone to keep up with who is making way more money than you are, to help drag you down if you follow his cue. He'll often encourage you to do it, too, as part of his own little ego game.

Better to spend your money when there's a lot more of it than blow it as soon as you start getting into it.

[diebitter]

Oporutnity

I love this word!

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Oporutnity

I love this word!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure I would too, but I couldn't find it in the dictionary.

[chisness]

book i'm reading explains how living in a more middle class neighborhood can help with these jealousy issues

[Blarg]

Sounds sensible.

I've known plenty of guys with tons of money, and they can get very frustrated when they think about what their even richer friends are doing. And there will always be someone richer than you. When they're around their less wealthy friends, I think they feel better about their status.

They just drive themselves crazy thinking about other people being richer than them. No matter how good and easy they have it. They can make themselves absolutely miserable.

Better to be more grounded and learn to appreciate what they have. Especially when it's a lot!

[peachy]

they r so worth it...i shopped around forever looking for a car that worked in all the areas i wanted...this car fit the bill...ive had it 2 years and LOVE it...just dont get a BRAND new one...if u want one that bad get a demo model and save yourself money...

to me the car is worth every penny i spent on it


different things are worth different things to different people

[david050173]

So you are going to buy an overpriced car also? You could save 10k by getting a kia. Do you also think that people that go to starbucks, go to out to eat, go to movies, and so are also squandering money? Everyone makes different choices on how they want to spend thier money. Calling them stupid is just immature. After all if you are making 100k and buying a 25k car is a lot more as % of disposable income than the guy making 500k buying a 55k car.

[Blarg]

This is what I was getting at. You shouldn't get your life and your future in a jam over it. The problem of course is that so many people screw up financially when they get carried away with indulgences, cars being only one of them. Then they get to be ghetto fabulous.

[BradleyT]

Most Americans work for the government and the bank (think about where a persons earned income goes).

[rusellmj]

Why don't you just buy preowned? Let someone else pay for driving it off the lot new.

Edit: What is the ratio of car cost to income where one becomes a poseur?

[casinogosain]

Buy used/certified pre-owned.

Also, before you buy, find out how much it will cost to insure at your age (fresh out of college).

-Ash

[david050173]

[ QUOTE ]
Buy used/certified pre-owned.

Also, before you buy, find out how much it will cost to insure at your age (fresh out of college).

-Ash

[/ QUOTE ]

Buying used makes the car 20% cheaper on average. The people who claim they get the car for half price ignore the 3 years of value the other person got out of the car. This also assume you sell the car at the same age(not how many years you own the car. See edmunds TCO (The numbers will vary depending on your situation) If you are worried about the price of the car, that probably shouldn't make a difference.

The number I saw was that 40% of your yearly salary is what most people spend on a car. Seems really high to me but I guess all the people with 30K jobs buying 20K cars inflates this value.

The poseur value is more if you buy a M3 and never track it or take advantage of the reason why you spend 15k more than buying the 330. Or any automatic porsche...

[astroglide]

i drive a stick and enjoy it, but i think you might be underestimating how far along automatics are. look at audi's dsg system for example. faster 0-60 times and better gas mileage to boot, 2 traditional holding points of manuals. advanced paddle systems are really doing great now. sticks are still fun to drive just for the 'hands on' factor as well as being able to drive up the torque by hanging out in the lower gears. to mention the dsg again, they have 'auto' and 'sport' modes where the sport mode more or less gears how a typical stick driver does.

[J-Lo]

[ QUOTE ]
any automatic porsche...

[/ QUOTE ]

any auto porsche (boxster is not a porche) it much more xpensive than an m3 or even an m5.

btw... right now i drive a paid off 2001 Nissan sentra se ( they hadn't released the se-r til the next year). So any car over $15k is gona be an upgrade. However, right now i'm gona milk this car for all its worth. Travel a bit after i graduate. Then go back to school and work at p*ker, so i won't be needing a new car for a while.

[Voltron87]

as a young person i look at it this way:

BMWs are freaking sweet. they are fun to drive and look awesome. i could buy one with my own money and be the king of college, booya everyone!

flip side:

you pay 55K for an asset that will immediately lose a ton of its value. it will be very expensive to keep up given insurance, repairs, and parking (i live in nyc and most likely am going to be at school in philly). the car will cost me much much more than 55K, especially considering the alternative is investing the money and ending up with more than 55k rather than much less.



So yeah, a car like a BMW is very expensive. You could get an equivalent functionwise for 1/3 as much. That's a lot for the engine and flash. I think the dynamics of me having poker from an income definitely affect my thoughts on this, I have never had a "real" job other than typical temporary teenage stuff. Don't misconstrue this and think I'm saying no one should buy a nice car, what I wrote is just my perspective on it. I'm sure having a high performance car rocks, but it is very expensive.

[FatalError]

Just get the car, you won't regret it if you love cars

[david050173]

[ QUOTE ]
i drive a stick and enjoy it, but i think you might be underestimating how far along automatics are. look at audi's dsg system for example. faster 0-60 times and better gas mileage to boot, 2 traditional holding points of manuals. advanced paddle systems are really doing great now. sticks are still fun to drive just for the 'hands on' factor as well as being able to drive up the torque by hanging out in the lower gears. to mention the dsg again, they have 'auto' and 'sport' modes where the sport mode more or less gears how a typical stick driver does.

[/ QUOTE ]

DSG and SMG are a special class of tranmissions. You could argue they are manuals witha computer operated clutch and not automatics (is a manual a user operated clutch or the lack of a torque convertor. Edmunds has numberous discusions about this). In my mind DSG is clearly the best tranmission out there is all you care about is performance and not abut the "joy of shifting".

Porsches come with triptronics. No comparision to a manual if you are looking for control during spirited driving. And if you are just cruising the highway, there are better cars than than the porsche.

[david050173]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
any automatic porsche...

[/ QUOTE ]

any auto porsche (boxster is not a porche) it much more xpensive than an m3 or even an m5.
/quote]

How does that change the fact that if you buy a performance car with a slushbox you are a poseur? Exceptions will be made for people who can't operate a clutch for physical reasons.

[rwesty]

that settles it, peachy has a small penis

[sthief09]

but she does in fact have an M3

[astroglide]

cool. i shouldn't have assumed you were making a blanket anti-auto statement with the porsche comment.

i drove a dsg a3 pretty recently and i was shocked at how good it was. prior to that i hadn't seriously considered anything other than a manual.

[Mr_J]

Americans should be allowed to complain about the cost of their cars, considering alot of other countries have to pay much more.

"What kind of people buy expensive cars-- and do they THINK about better ways to spend their money?"

If you have the money then why not? Anyway, cars mean different things to different people. Might just be for posing value for one person, and for another it might just be because they're into cars. Just because you don't think it's worth it doesn't mean others feel the same way. It might not be a poor investment for them if they feel they get enough out of it.

"I'l be making 6 figures plus coming out of college, but spending $12,000/year on a car is quite preposterous."

Maybe for you. What else would you spend that money on? Maybe other people don't want to spend like you do? Maybe they don't want to invest as much as you do?

"What kind of people out there prefer spending that kind of money on cars instead of the peace of mind of living in a paid off home which APPRECIATES!?!?!?"

People who get more out of the experience than you, and posers.


Why don't you just ask why some people spend every spare dollar they have on doing up their car, or any other hobby they have? Alot of people have expensive hobbies. You might see them as poor investments, but it's not really if they really get something out of it.

"I guess my next car is gona be a Subaru WRX"

Wow what a poor investment. I could buy a bike and get MUCH better performance out of it for 1/4 the cost /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[RiverFenix]

Why has no one called BS on him making 100k+ coming out of college yet?

[david050173]

[ QUOTE ]
Why has no one called BS on him making 100k+ coming out of college yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I assumed he is getting a professional degree. There might also be some engineering jobs that are close.

[FatalError]

because a brain dead college graduate could make 6 figures with the p thing

[david050173]

[ QUOTE ]
cool. i shouldn't have assumed you were making a blanket anti-auto statement with the porsche comment.

i drove a dsg a3 pretty recently and i was shocked at how good it was. prior to that i hadn't seriously considered anything other than a manual.

[/ QUOTE ]

The A3 really rocks. It is impressive how little turbo lag, how much torque, and how smooth the shifts are on that car. I sort of wonder how reliable the DSG will be but those other qualties make it one of the most enjoyable "semi luxery" cars out there. I am sure the wrx and like are as fast (or faster) but the interiors just don't measure up to audi in my mind.

[astroglide]

yeah. if a dealer had a LOADED sport 2.0t i couldn't help but buy it. they're trying to keep the price down so nobody has navigation systems, etc on them. that's why i'm buying a goddamn audi, folks. i think they're mismarketing the vehicle and the dealers think it's some kind of "my first audi" thing. the first mistake was probably putting it in the A series to begin with, it really deserves its own line name. since it's 3 months to order from germany i haven't pulled the trigger yet. the new apr chips look great for a kick to 250hp and the reports are that it actually IMPROVES the mpg (which is already an astounding 32 highway). i if you'd be spinning wheels with fwd though.

the a3 is the best blend of fun, utility, and luxury i think i've seen. usually you can only have 2 of those 3 qualities strongly present in a vehcile.

[mikeyvegas]

[ QUOTE ]


the a3 is the best blend of fun, utility, and luxury i think i've seen. usually you can only have 2 of those 3 qualities strongly present in a vehcile.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree with this. I purchased a saab 9-2x aero because of that whole "GM employee purchase" thing, but if I had to do it again I would haved shelled out the loot to pick up the A3.

[Eurotrash]

[ QUOTE ]
(i live in nyc and most likely am going to be at school in philly).

[/ QUOTE ]



I thought you were in school there in NYC. what gives?