Marauding pit bulls attack six

[Blarg]

Even bit off his owner's thumb.

Yet another sad tale in the endless stream about this breed.

Rampaging pit bull team (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/06/pit.bulls.ap/index.html)

[HopeydaFish]

This thread will now be deluged with posts defending the breed. How certain posters own/owned pitbulls that wouldn't hurt a fly and were good with children(!). How it's not the dogs who are at fault, it's the owners for not training them, bla bla bla

They've banned the breed where I live.

[chuddo]

the thought of how terribly mangled the 10 year old in critical condition must be is sick.

[ QUOTE ]
a wild pack of family dogs came runnin through the yard one day
my father got his gun, shot it up they ran away ok
a wild pack of family dogs came runnin through the yard
and as my own dog ran away with them i didnt say much of anything at all

a wild pack of family dogs came runnin through the yard
as my little sister played the dogs took her away
and i guess she was eaten up ok yeah
my mothers cryin' blood dust now

[/ QUOTE ]

[fyodor]

Every time a dog attacks someone that dog should be shot in front of the owner and then the owner should be shot. Every [censored] time.

[Blarg]

It seems like a good idea to me. The truth is, these dogs have been bred expressly for viciousness by many people, and you don't really know what's in the bloodline of your dog. Apparently normal house dogs of this breed seem to snap regularly. A lot of what dogs do is instinctual, like, start to run and they'll chase you. They even chase cars! And they start doing that as tiny puppies. It looks like violence is pretty instinctual to this breed by this point in its genetic manipulation. These guys bit their owners' thumb off, too, and went running around the neighborhood attacking, so they weren't just defending their territory or their owner -- they were on full-on random attack, even outside their territory.

Obviously owners can make dogs like these worse, and they tend to attract the worst kind of owners, but it's pointless by now to deny the inherent nastiness of the breed, especially since it has been specifically bred for, for so many generations by so many people.

[HopeydaFish]

When they were talking about banning the breed here in Ontario, the Humane Society, the Kennel Club, pitbull owners, and a bunch of other animal groups tried to campaign against the idea. However, they built up next to no support amongst the general population. The average person doesn't want to have to worry about their kids getting mauled by some loser's attack dog.

It's about the only decent thing that our government has done since it got elected.

[chuddo]

someone should have unleashed a pack of ravenous pit bulls on the support groups. or at least adorable, bloodthirsty shelties.

[MelchyBeau]

[ QUOTE ]
The attack in the Denver suburb of Aurora came two days after the City Council banned pit bulls and other "fighting dogs." Owners who already had the dogs could keep them if they paid a $200 annual license fee.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are other fighting dogs?

Melch

[chuddo]

[ QUOTE ]
What are other fighting dogs?


[/ QUOTE ]
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/chuddo/dogs.jpg

[Blarg]

Remember that lesbian who got torn up in San Francisco by her neighbor's two dogs? One was a Canary Island something or other, which apparently are big and often very mean dogs.
Rottweilers have that rep too.

Some German strains of German shepherds are bred for meanness too, but that's to make them scarier guard dogs, not to fight other dogs. Same with Dobermans, who are often psychologically way out there on the edge.

But I don't know what that city council defined as fighting dogs. I'm sure pit bull is always the first breed whose name comes to mind.

[Lazymeatball]

Pitt bull's aggressiveness are a result of the humans breeding or owning/training them. Any dog can make mistakes, but the nature of pit bulls jaws and mental determination means that when they make 'mistakes' they make big mistakes. I strongly believe that the type of owner who is attracted to pit bulls or rottweilers or whatever big scary dog is the kind who encourages that kind of aggressive behavior or who is not qualified to train them properly.

That being said, a nervous frightened pit bull can be one of the more dangerous dogs at the animal hospital I work at.


ps. Canary dogs are pretty badass
http://www.behaviour-problems.freeserve.co.uk/images/Breeds/canarydog2.jpg

[Blarg]

I'm curious -- how exactly does it work that some dogs -- e.g., those of the pit bull -- can somehow "lock"?

[Lazymeatball]

I'm not fully qualified to answer this, but I don't believe that pit bulls' jaws have some special ability to "lock." I believe it's more a quality of the mental determination of the dog to keep going no matter what. In old school dog fighting circles this mental determination is referred to as "game," as in how much game that dog has.

[Blarg]

I seem to have heard before that some dogs have some sort of anatomy that lets their jaws "lock," so that even when they're dead they can still be hanging on. I'm sure other dogs are just as determined, when life and death are at stake, even if pit bulls are a bit crazier.

I think I may have heard that bulldogs can do this too, but am not sure about the whole thing.

[Lazymeatball]

haha, bulldogs jaw are completely screwed up. They are an orthodontist's dream, as they usually have incredible underbites or their teeth just stick straight out. I woouldn't worry to much about getting bit by one of them as their teeth usually don't line up. I'm referring to modern day English bulldogs. Their middle age predecessors were pretty dangerous though , as they used to fight bulls and bears (hence the name).

[raisins]

[ QUOTE ]
What are other fighting dogs?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a large Japanese breed called a Tosa (?), Dogo Agentino, and the Presa Canarius are three of the more obscure breeds of fighting dog that still have a lot of gameness and dog agresiveness in their bloodlines along with the Pit Bull. The bulldog was bred solely for the sport of bull baiting. Bull baiting consisted of tying a bull to a stake and setting 3-5 dogs loose on him and watching the mayhem. Over the years the bulldog has lost much of its aggresiveness as it has been bred solely as a pet. Pit Bulls are still fought and even if a minority of them are fought many of them have ancestors that did fight a few generations back. "Few" being relative to most other dogs breeds. Some are also used as protection dogs and others in pulling contests and this motivates breeders to select parents with drive and some degree of assertiveness along with temperment.

Still, I think they are fantastic dogs and some of the sweetest dogs I have ever met have been Pit Bulls or Pit Bull crosses. Obviously they need a lot of supervision and attention. Most of the agression I have seen from the breed has been directed towards other dogs and not to humans.

regards,

raisins

[RacersEdge]

How long has the pitbull breed been around? Maybe they research it's evolution and prevent them from being breeded further. Maybe require that all pitbulls be neutered and/or being given some type of mellowing drugs. I'm sure all of this has been brought up after an attack.

[Blarg]

Well, they are being made illegal in some communities. And people with pit bulls that go on rampages are being prosecuted good and hard in some localities, and their claims of self defense or whatever being looked at with much greater scrutiny.

[ QUOTE ]
This thread will now be deluged with posts defending the breed. How certain posters own/owned pitbulls that wouldn't hurt a fly and were good with children(!). How it's not the dogs who are at fault, it's the owners for not training them, bla bla bla



They've banned the breed where I live.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is the owner's fault short of a mental disorder in the dog and an owner should catch this anyways. I would love for you to prove me wrong.

What other dogs are banned where you live? It's sad if its only Pits.

[Blarg]

The whole problem is they've been bred to effectively have a mental disorder from birth. They've been genetically selected for aggressiveness and desire to fight for countless generations.

It's way past too late to say it all depends on how they're raised.

[Bradyams]

[ QUOTE ]
I seem to have heard before that some dogs have some sort of anatomy that lets their jaws "lock," so that even when they're dead they can still be hanging on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pit bulls do NOT have locking jaws. No dog of any breed has ever been found to possess a mechanism in their jaw which would allow them to "lock" their top and bottom jaw together. There is no such thing as a locking jaw!

Taken from here. (http://pitbulls.jentown.com/stereotype/pitbullstereotype.htm#1) Not a very credible site, but I highly doubt that pitbulls can lock their jaws. I think they just have extremely strong jaws.

[Blarg]

Maybe it's just an old wives tale then.

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's just an old wives tale then.

[/ QUOTE ]

No dog can lock their jaws. They have very strong jaws and were breed to clamp onto a bull's nose and stay there no matter what the bull did. FYI, rottweilers kill more people than pits. Pitbulls are not at the top breed that bites. Pits were breed to be dog aggressive and people friendly. No dog fighter wanted a dog attacking them. Strong, big jawed, dog aggressive pits were selectively breed. Weak, timid, or people aggressive dogs were not breed and either left to die or killed.

They are extremely trainable and are pack oriented. They respond well to strong leadership and will not question an owner that has properly trained its dog.

The media really focuses on pits. When other dogs attack or kill humans it is usually just listed as dog attacks kid or whatever.

Yes the are good at killing. Way too many people get them for the wrong reasons. Way too many people do not train there dogs properly which is more important with large dogs or dogs more capable of killing.

Over 30+ dog species have killed humans. In twenty years though only 500 or so people have died in the US to dogs. I am not saying this is small or not important but every year there are millions of dog bites and quite a few are serious.

I understand most people's reaction to pits because of the info they are given. Some intresting stuff pops up when you start to research dog bites. Most are kids, a chained dog is much more likely to attack, males attack more than females, non neutered/non spayed attack a lot more than n/s dogs.

I would never have a dog if I had to put it on a chain. It really messes them up. I have no kids. Mixing any kind of dog and an infant is not smart. Any big/aggressive dog is not wise with children to young teenagers. Several children receive bites because they do not understand or able to control dogs. Coming between their food, dogs in heat, etc.

Accepting dogs into society is open for debate. No study has ever concluded that pits have an inclination to attack people based on breeding. It is not fair to pits/pit owners considering other breeds have done more damage. I do feel that too many people have large or aggressive dogs and are improperly training and raising them. Anyone that buys a dog with the purpose having it be a guard dog and trains him that way better be able to control and supervise this encouraged killer.

If my dog bites someone I accept resonsibility. If it got loose its my fault. If I failed to socialize it w/ people and other dogs its my fault. If I had it tied up and some kid jumped into my yard to get his ball and gets killed its my fault. If I walk it w/o a leash and it attacks someone its my fault. If it eats my child its my fault. If it misinterpets someone's actions as aggressive towards me and attacks them its my fault.

I have had three pit bulls all female and spayed and all were people friendly. One entered are home on her death bed. It appeared she was used to fight. She had scars covering her body. My sister refused to let her go. We all thought it would die. I discovered the only thing she would eat was old frozen LJS fish. She was named Bones(pretty much all she was) when we still thought she would die. After her recovery my stepfather decided that we could keep and begun to train it. She was as timid of people as it gets. She was extremely dog aggressive but would freeze if ordered to. I no longer have a dog. My last one died of cancer and I am in the military. My girlfriend however just adopted a beagle/walker hound mix. It is about 25 pounds. It meat-hooked my nose two nights ago w/ its fang. I fell to the ground like a brick and was bleeding for about 30 minutes. My pits never even came close to anything like this. I didn't go to the hospital. It was never reported. If a larger dog did this exact thing, with even less force I probably would have been in the hospital. So data is not totally reliable.

I do accept the idea that their is more risk with some breeds over others. I just feel that pits have been singled out while a culture of people owning dogs and not properly caring/training for them is often ignored. Not until long ago the american pit bull was an image of what a dog should be.

Here is some stuff I dug up.

A survey by the national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta ("CDC") concluded that dogs bite nearly 2% of the U.S. population -- more than 4.7 million people annually. (Sacks JJ, Kresnow M, Houston B. Dog bites: how big a problem? Injury Prev 1996;2:52-4.)

Almost 800,000 bites per year -- one out of every 6 -- are serious enough to require medical attention. (Weiss HB, Friedman D, Coben JH. Incidence of dog bite injuries treated in emergency departments. JAMA 1998;279:51-53.) "Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996....[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities." (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.)

Other breeds were also responsible for homicides, but to a much lesser extent. A 1997 study of dog bite fatalities in the years 1979 through 1996 revealed that the following breeds had killed one or more persons: pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas. (Dog Bite Related Fatalities," Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, May 30, 1997, Vol. 46, No. 21, pp. 463 et. seq.)

The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)

i think someone else mentioned this, but there is a breed, the argentinian dogo i believe, which is pretty fierce. i think they're illegal in many countries. someone in my town got a hold of a male and female, and they had a batch of puppies before the lone male was neutred. a friend of mine got one of the puppies. it grew to be about 100lbs, and looked ferocious. had the big jaws of a pit.. was mostly white, wiht some brown i believe. really sweet dog though. never bit anyone. the patriarch of the dogo family was an absolute savage though. one of two dogs i've ever been scared of. the other is a husky shepard mix that my friends family adopted from a shelter. thing is a monster. not in size, just personality. friendly towards the family, but anyone els3 is fair game. i've been around dogs my whole life, and while i'm sure breeding plays some role, i think that most of a dogs demeanor comes from how it is raised. i have met many friendly pits, and many nasty poodles. i think one reason pits have such a bad rap is alot of the people who buy them are idiots who want a mean looking dog, and in reality have no business owning a dog. mmany of the college aged nuckleheads that i know who own dogs have pits prolly for this reason.

[Lazymeatball]

Argentinian Dogo's are pretty incredible dogs. This is all rumors but I've heard they were bred to hunt bears or chase down escaping slaves and stuff, which is pretty cool. (not the slavery part, but the hunting of man part) Obvgiously personality is dog specific but of the few dogo's I've known they've all been pretty mellow. They were deliberately bred maybe 100-200 years ago mixing america bull dogs, grey hounds, big mastiffs and all sorts of other big dogs.

http://www.puppypurebred.com/images/ArgentineDogo.jpg

yup, thats the dogo alright. also one of the most athletic dogs i've ever seen in action. if i were an escaping slave, i would not want that on my tail.

[drewjustdrew]

This happened a couple miles from my house. A couple days later there was another attack in nearby Carpentersville. An epidemic.