A blind steal - A4o

[adsman]

sb was a passive calling station.
bb was a donky LAG.

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.fourthnut.com/cgi-bin/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Likey? Or no Likey?

[sean c]

Whats the chance of sb folding to a turn raise with anything that we could possibly want to fold out?

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
bb was a donky LAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really a LAG, or just not a very good player? Looks to me like you lost to acey-deucey, and BB is actually kind of passive.

I don't actually like it much. I think you either need to play back at him or GTFO; the only hand you're beating that might hang around is A3, and the calling station worries me more than the LAG does.

[Vote4Pedro]

[ QUOTE ]
sb was a passive calling station.
bb was a donky LAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is the kind of sb who'll always defend his blind and never fold postflop, I don't really like stealing with AXo hands. Also, how laggy/donkish is the BB? I assume hes capable of semibluffing a 3-frush board, so I like raising this turn.

[adsman]

Calling stations stats: 79%/0%/0.27

I mean he would call down with ANYTHING.

LAG had a great dislike for me as I had beaten him out of a few pots that were "rightfully his."

I dont think you can get away if thats what you want. If you got CRd on turn I might fold but a donk? I think you need a read before you can drop it.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think you can get away if thats what you want. If you got CRd on turn I might fold but a donk? I think you need a read before you can drop it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The last thing on my mind is getting away from the hand.

[Rev. Good Will]

What's not to like?

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
sb was a passive calling station.
bb was a donky LAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is the kind of sb who'll always defend his blind and never fold postflop, I don't really like stealing with AXo hands. Also, how laggy/donkish is the BB? I assume hes capable of semibluffing a 3-frush board, so I like raising this turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think raising this turn is a bad idea. I used to raise this turn. Now I don't.

[Vote4Pedro]

I can see what youre saying, but against the players you've described? Youre ahead of the LAG the majority of the time, and you mentioned he's been taking shots at you, plus the SB isnt folding any piece of the board. Why not make him pay two bets w/ 87o or something ridiculous?

On, the other hand, the pot isnt that big on the turn, so a suckout isnt that devastating...Whats your reasoning for not wanting to raise the turn?

[adsman]

I don't like raising the turn for the simple reason that the sb is padding the pot. Why would I want to push him out? I have a player who I'm pretty sure I have beat betting at me, plus another player calling hopelessly along. By raising I say, 'well actually, you're both fecked,' and there's a good chance they'll fold. I don't want them to fold.
Plus there is the possibility that I'm already beat. Wouldn't it suck big huge donkey balls to raise the turn and get reraised in such an average size pot?

[bottomset]

I like, let the BB bluff at you

SB won't have very many outs very often, so he's not a big concern

[Vote4Pedro]

SB is almost never hopelessly tagging along in this situation, there are way too many draws and your hand is way too vulnerable to let him get off easily. From the first couple of posts, I got the impression that he doesnt fold anything, so why not give him the opportunity to call two?

Getting 3bet by a lagtard doesnt suck all that badly, imo, because the majority of the time youre gonna be ahead when you make the initial raise, and who knows...he might be 3betting with a shittier hand, either way, I'm showing down against "crazy LAG".

[adsman]

He was a LAG but he wasn't crazy. The calling station would fold to a double bet on the turn when obviously beat.

[nomadtla]

I like it. The pot is small so getting suckout will not keep you up all night. Let the small blind probably pad the pot for you and dingus (BB). If dingus is ahead you've lost the least while advertising that you'll keep him honest. If BB is behind why should we let him know that when we can keep SB in too.

[Jaran]

For some reason, I have a strong desire to raise this river. Discuss.

-Jaran

[Stealthy]

I like. If BB is laggy then no need to raise the turn as these shorthanded LAGS could re-raise with air and put you into a tough spot. The SB calling station can do as he pleases, chances are he is nowhere or drawing mighty thin.

I play it the same 95% of the time. The other 5% is for when the laggy player is really a maniac whereby I can call a re-raise still knowing I have the best hand most of the time. The only time I am folding this is if the passive SB wakes up and bets or raises as that usually means 2 pair or better.

[Stealthy]

[ QUOTE ]
For some reason, I have a strong desire to raise this river. Discuss.

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't fancy a river raise here. Not sure how many worse hands we are getting to call. Also in the best case senario SB folds and BB call and we win the same as the overcall. If we are behind to a anything from a bigger ace to a flush we then get a 3 bet that we should not call but might do if the LAG is the one doing it. Also if the SB did call our raise then that could easily indicate that he has us beat instead of or as well as the BB.

IMO a raise here is a little to aggro and likely to be -EV.

[Greg J]

HU yes, I raise the river. Since it's 3 handed I'm inclined to just call since a raise is likely to drive out the other guy and exposes you to a possible 3 bet if you are beat. On the other hand, if you are ahead (very likely) then you probably net the same as a call. A raise basically opens you to unnecessary risk with no real reward.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
For some reason, I have a strong desire to raise this river. Discuss.

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Jaran, haven't seen you for a while.

I thought about raising but figured that the overcall would be better. If the LAG is full of it then he's not calling, and the calling station is much more likely to call one than two. Or are you thinking along the lines that you only go for overcalls with a strong hand and you want to raise it with a weak hand?

[Jaran]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For some reason, I have a strong desire to raise this river. Discuss.

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Jaran, haven't seen you for a while.

I thought about raising but figured that the overcall would be better. If the LAG is full of it then he's not calling, and the calling station is much more likely to call one than two. Or are you thinking along the lines that you only go for overcalls with a strong hand and you want to raise it with a weak hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Been really busy with grad school apps, work and homework, so not a lot of time.

My thinking was something along that line. What I'm really thinking about is that we probably have BB beat a good majority of the time. The unknown is the SB. He could have a hand that beats us, we could have him crushed, we just don't know because of his passiveness. If there is a chance that he will fold a hand like A5, A8 here if we face him with two cold, I'm willing to risk a 3bet from the BB. But I could be waaaaaay off /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

-Jaran

[Stealthy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For some reason, I have a strong desire to raise this river. Discuss.

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Jaran, haven't seen you for a while.

I thought about raising but figured that the overcall would be better. If the LAG is full of it then he's not calling, and the calling station is much more likely to call one than two. Or are you thinking along the lines that you only go for overcalls with a strong hand and you want to raise it with a weak hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Been really busy with grad school apps, work and homework, so not a lot of time.

My thinking was something along that line. What I'm really thinking about is that we probably have BB beat a good majority of the time. The unknown is the SB. He could have a hand that beats us, we could have him crushed, we just don't know because of his passiveness. If there is a chance that he will fold a hand like A5, A8 here if we face him with two cold, I'm willing to risk a 3bet from the BB. But I could be waaaaaay off /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

If there is a passive playing $1 $2 SH that can fold a pair of Aces then I have not seen him yet!! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Jaran]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For some reason, I have a strong desire to raise this river. Discuss.

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Jaran, haven't seen you for a while.

I thought about raising but figured that the overcall would be better. If the LAG is full of it then he's not calling, and the calling station is much more likely to call one than two. Or are you thinking along the lines that you only go for overcalls with a strong hand and you want to raise it with a weak hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Been really busy with grad school apps, work and homework, so not a lot of time.

My thinking was something along that line. What I'm really thinking about is that we probably have BB beat a good majority of the time. The unknown is the SB. He could have a hand that beats us, we could have him crushed, we just don't know because of his passiveness. If there is a chance that he will fold a hand like A5, A8 here if we face him with two cold, I'm willing to risk a 3bet from the BB. But I could be waaaaaay off /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

If there is a passive playing $1 $2 SH that can fold a pair of Aces then I have not seen him yet!! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe...Well, we can dream.

-Jaran