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View Full Version : can I fold KK preflop here?

TightIsRight
11-12-2005, 03:41 AM
$30 Deepstack. Hand #3.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) converter (http://www.fourthnut.com/cgi-bin/hhconverter.cgi)

MP3 (t5100)
CO (t4960)
Button (t4900)
SB (t4980)
BB (t4980)
UTG (t5120)
UTG+1 (t5000)
MP1 (t4940)
Hero (t5000)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. UTG posts a blind of t20.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t120</font>, MP1 calls t120, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t375</font>, MP3 calls t375, CO calls t375, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG (poster) calls t355, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t5000</font>, MP1 folds, HERO???
TightIsRight
11-12-2005, 03:43 AM
I don't usually read this forum, so please excuse me if this is one of those obnoying posts that pop up all the time...where some idiot wants to find the spot to lay down KK PF. Nonetheless, this was my situation.
Lloyd
11-12-2005, 03:46 AM
Tough one simply because of the stacks. That's a lot of chips he's throwing out there. But no way can you put him on AA only. AA is certainly possible but so is AK, KK (although obviously reduced since you have KK), and maybe even QQ. You're a very slight favorite against that range - like 55/45. With about 1600 in dead money I think I'd make the call.
11-12-2005, 03:47 AM
I call all-in.. I know this really defeats the purpose of "deep stack" poker, but it doesn't really matter.. ya he might have aces, but if I fold and he has QQ/AK or something, I'm gonna be kicking myself, this looks like a good double up opportunity.. plus it's a weird way to play aces this hard.
Lloyd
11-12-2005, 03:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't usually read this forum, so please excuse me if this is one of those obnoying posts that pop up all the time...where some idiot wants to find the spot to lay down KK PF. Nonetheless, this was my situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

At first, yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. The difference is this is a deep stack tournament which I think narrows the villain's range and would make me at least stop and think for a second before pushing in my chips.
ansky451
11-12-2005, 03:50 AM
Jesus, thats a lot of action.

The fact that its the third hand, and a lot of people have a crazy gamble attitude early on, makes me want to call this.
11-12-2005, 03:50 AM
I think your stack may actually be deep enough to fold KK preflop, but I don't think this is AA more frequently than it's QQ, KK, AK, etc. I think AA's probably more likely to raise to 1500 or so.
TightIsRight
11-12-2005, 03:56 AM
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Jesus, thats a lot of action.

The fact that its the third hand, and a lot of people have a crazy gamble attitude early on, makes me want to call this.

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If this hand would have come up 1 minute later (after I saw how maniacial these guys were), I would have insta-called. 3 people ended up calling all in behind me.
11-12-2005, 03:56 AM
I think tons of people have face cards and or Pocket pairs, i think weak aces are looking for action.

SHOVE IT IN.

This is as good as it gets, and if you lose you saved yourself alot of time.
11-12-2005, 04:04 AM
Put the chips in.

The play in these tournaments isn't so great, and his play doesn't really look like AA either.
TightIsRight
11-12-2005, 04:07 AM
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The play in these tournaments isn't so great

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This was my first deepstack. man, are you right. and man, I am naive to think that it wouldn't be a donkfest
KneeCo
11-12-2005, 04:34 AM
I dont think AA raises 6 BBs UTG, nor do I think he reraises AI there. I'm not saying he doesn't have the nuts, I'm just not sure of it. I probably call here. I should say there is some debate to be had, and this is a better post than anticipated by the title /images/graemlins/grin.gif but in the end I think the right move is to call.
11-12-2005, 04:45 AM
Almost the exact same thing happened to me last week in the saturday $30 deep stacks. 2nd or 3rd hand, I raise from MP with KK and the small blind went allin for 5K. I called and he turns up AA. No help and Im out.
durrrr
11-12-2005, 04:53 AM
Dont reraise preflop if you are folding here w/ KK. I probably call preflop, but if i was somehow in your spot i'd fold i think- although ive only playd the 30+3 ds a few times, and the play was donkish- i dont know. 200bbs on KK is a ton. I think since its such a small buyin tourny (w/ presumably lots of donks) I just call preflop, as i dont want to need to fold this hand against people who might flip over JJ expecting it to be good. If this was a sunday 215 or something, i could reraise and fold to a push if i was somehow 250bbs deep in that.
TightIsRight
11-12-2005, 05:08 AM
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Dont reraise preflop if you are folding here w/ KK.

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Does everyone agree with this statement?
JustPlayingSmart
11-12-2005, 07:13 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dont reraise preflop if you are folding here w/ KK.

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Does everyone agree with this statement?

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No I don't agree with it at all. I haven't played in these tournaments often. But I would think a good portion of the time, a reraise gets it heads up, instead of 4 or 5 way with deep stacks when your most likely hand after the flop is going to be an overpair.

Granted, I would not fold to the all-in, so that probably clouds my decision, but I just don't think an all-in happens enough to overcome all the benefits of reraising.