15-30 Hand...Played poorly or am I being results oriented?

[Jeffage]

I'm in a good 15-30 game on Party. I have K2o in the SB. 4 limpers, I call for $5, BB checks. Flop comes Kd Jc 6s. I check rather than bet into the field planning to raise a LP bettor and probably fold if there is a bet and a call or something to that effect. Anyway it is checked to the button, a very loose player, who bets. I raise. Now the BB comes alive and 3-bets. The button calls. Can I fold now? The BB seems solid and what am I really drawing to here. I make what I think is a bad call. The turn comes 5c for a board of Kd Jc 6s 5c. I check, BB bets, button calls, and I fold. The river is the 5s to pair the board. It goes check-check. What do you put them on, what could I have done differently. And lets not argue to much about preflop, it is profitable in my opinion to play any two cards out of the SB in a 2 chip-3 chip blind game assuming the pot isnt raised esp. with callers ahead.

Jeff

[Ginogino]

Jeffage:
While I agree with the general wisdom that you can call with most anything from the small blind for 1/3 of a small bet, it seems to me that that wisdom comes with the important proviso that you have to be able to get away from top pair if that's all you have on the flop. You really need to hit two pair or better on the flop to continue playing here.

Assuming that your eventual two-pair hand would have been a winner (and how often will that happen?) then the two players who saw the river are idiots, and it seems to me more profitable to wait for a hand that you are happy to bet robustly (and let them call you down with whatever garbage they had on the flop and turn that they were so happy with on this hand).

Gino

[Jimbo]

Jeffage I put them both on QT. Still a good fold, it would have been a better fold if you did not call the three bet or for that matter raise the buttons' bet. I would have bet out on the flop, easier to play the hand in that manner.

[rtrombone]

You're in a tough spot here because of your position. If you had the button, for example, you could cap, check the turn and call a river bet. If you cap it at the flop from the SB and check the turn you may (will likely) face a bet.

There's no one way to play the hand. Like so many situations in hold 'em, it depends on what kind of players your opponents are and your reads. One thing to keep in mind is that the button could have anything and the BB may be 3-betting here because he thinks you're trying to isolate the button with a raise. So he could he have a pair of jacks. Q10 is also a definite possibility; I would have played this hand exactly as he did, checking to see what developed and then 3-betting.

But he could also have a decent pair of kings or even two pair.

Depending on how I felt about my opponents' hands, I would most likely muck or cap it at the flop. If I just called as you did, I would bet the turn. I think you can safely fold to a raise here.

I think I would also usually bet the flop. Since the only possible draw is Q10, it's a little more likely that a raise means that you're beat.

[Jeffage]

I'm actually kinda surprised you guys didn't like the checkraise in some ways. According to HPFAP, if you're in this spot with crap in the blind into a field it is better to check and gauge the action rather than bet out if u hit top pair, crap kicker. If a late bettor bets, u are supposed to raise and hope for the best where as u can get away if there is a bet and a coupla callers. Do you guys disagree with this advice or am I reading wrong. I should have folded to the flop 3-bet but don't regret raising the flop. In the end, the flop 3-bettor showed AJ for Jacks Up, button mucks (hand history reveals he has AQ for a flopped gutter). More comments welcome.

Thanks,
Jeff

[Clarkmeister]

Your preflop call is fine.

Your flop checkraise is the preferred play.

Your opponent in the BB went one level deeper than you, knowing that you most likely were restealing with very little from the obligatory button bet. You need to be aware of which opponents are capable of this type of thinking at the table. He is risking very little since he likely either has the best hand, and if not, he can get you to fold a better hand like Kx. Even if you won't fold a K, he knows his Ace and Jack outs are squeaky clean since you are very unlikely to have AK, and wouldn't have played QT or a set this way.

I like both your and the BB's flop play. This is a great hand for you to learn from.

[bad beetz]

when the BB check-three bets I put 0 more dollars in the pot.

also, we were having a discussion about this earlier this week:
Can you beat the 15/30 online? I know two confirmed winning players who cannot.

[Jeffage]

"Can you beat the 15/30 online?"

Yes. The games are very good. You just have to adapt to games that are sometimes extremely loose aggressive including some who are quite tricky after the flop. You also need a nice roll to handle large swings. But there are enough players who play very poorly before and after the flop to make the games very profitable.

Jeff

[Rick Nebiolo]

Jeffage,

I like your flop plan. But folding looks right by a lot once a solid big blind makes it three bets. There is just too good a chance you are drawing dead or near dead to a player who already has a better two pair or a set.

~ Rick

[J'adoube]

I think you played it well as a) when they all check to the button who bets it quite likely your hand is best so the checkraise seems good,
b) when the BB 3 bets and the button calls you are getting 15-1 on your call, so unless the BB would only 3 bet with hands like this
your have odds to hit a duece.

Also as others noted the BB 3bet may not even be (or beat as K) as he may
read you as trying to isolate. However once the button cold calls the flop I would have played as you did.

[RollaJ]

In hind sight I put button on Q-10 and the BB on J-6, I do think you played it fine. After checking the flop the only way to play it is to c/r when the button bets, I would make that play 98% of the time when in that situation. Check fold on the turn seems correct too, especially if my read is correct.....and if it is, you folded while behind without correct odds to draw (considering SB may be sitting on a set, at which point you are drawing dead)