Folding KK Before The Flop

A strange hand to be sure, but I actually was faced with this situation in December of 2004.

No Limit Hold'em SNG, $100+$9, 10 handed, Blinds 10/20.

First hand (All 10 players have 1000 chips).

Heroine is in Big Blind and is dealt K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

SB (t1000): Posts SB 10.
BB (Heroine t1000): Posts BB 20.
UTG (t1000): Bets 1000 (All-In).
UTG+1 (t1000): Folds.
UTG+2 (t1000): Folds.
MP1 (t1000): Folds.
MP2 (t1000): Calls 1000 (All-In).
MP3 (t1000): Calls 1000 (All-In).
CO (t1000): Folds.
Button (t1000): Folds.

SB (t990): Calls 990 (All-In).
BB (Heroine t980): Folds.

Comments?

( Please have some mercy on me...I suffered a head trauma in November, 2004! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

Have a great night! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[jedinite]

My immediate thought was I fold in a heartbeat, but I thought it was intriguing enough to run some numbers.

Mathmatically I assume I'm up against at least a pair of aces and a naked ace. Hopefullly thats AQ and not AK.

Against AA, AQ, JJ and QQ you're almost exactly a 20% favorite to win this hand, so if your preference trends towards maximizing your $$$/hr you can make an argument towards calling even if you knew you were up against AA.

Against AA, AA, JJ and QQ you're a little more than a 21% favorite...

However, if one king has been burned (somone's got AK instead of AQ) you drop to 11%, underneath QQ and JJ (since they've got two outs to your one).

I can't see any way this wouldn't be a fold... unless everyone's just insane. At a $5+1 or $10+1 i might call but can't imagine at a $109

[pineapple888]

OK, I'll bite. Kind of interesting even if it was imagined.

You are very close to having pot odds to call even if someone has Aces.

Decreasing marginal utility of chips counteracted by very high big stack advantage if you win.

Fire it in there.

[EverettKings]

Where the hell do you find tables like this??

And yes, I fold.

That should always be the call.

[ QUOTE ]
Where the hell do you find tables like this??


[/ QUOTE ]

Hi! I wish I knew. I had never been in a 109 that started that way before, and have never have been in another since. By the way, I finished second in that one...in about 33 minutes. 3 were sent packing in the first hand, to the Small Blind's AA.

Thank you! -Sharon.

As it turned out, there was a K in the flop, and a call would have won the pot. I did finish 2nd in that one, though, sooo I was okay with that. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[valenzuela]

[ QUOTE ]
Where the hell do you find tables like this??

And yes, I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you very much! -Sharon.

[ilya]

Good fold, even if you have pot odds against AA, you can't make money in 5-3-2 payout-structure SnGs by taking gambles which result in you being knocked out on the first hand 80% of the time. It is just impossible.

[ QUOTE ]
Where the hell do you find tables like this??

And yes, I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi. I wish I could find another one...or two...or three...or...

[ QUOTE ]
Good fold, even if you have pot odds against AA, you can't make money in 5-3-2 payout-structure SnGs by taking gambles which result in you being knocked out on the first hand 80% of the time. It is just impossible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi. Sooo true! Have a nice night!

[ QUOTE ]
As it turned out, there was a K in the flop, and a call would have won the pot. I did finish 2nd in that one, though, sooo I was okay with that. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew I was giving the g00t advice. I was the only one that says call and I was the only right person.

Mmmhmm. And...Mmmm. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Have a great weekend! -Sharon.

This is a semantic point, but---- I definitely don't use the word "favorite" in the same manner as you.

For example... in a situation where I have a 45% chance to win vs. 1 opponent who has a 55% chance to win, I would never say that I'm a 45% favorite.... I would say that I'm a 10% underdog (dog, actually)... or that, my opponent was a 10% favorite.

I believe--- and someone correct me if I'm wrong-- that the word favorite is, and should be, reserved for speaking about the person who is actually ahead in the hand (the one who is in fact the "favorite").

It's kind of a silly point, but I've been drinking, and after reading your post I had to run the numbers myself-- even though I knew there was no way that the OP could have been a 20% favorite...

And now I've made a stupid post about it....

[handsome]

[ QUOTE ]
Good fold, even if you have pot odds against AA, you can't make money in 5-3-2 payout-structure SnGs by taking gambles which result in you being knocked out on the first hand 80% of the time. It is just impossible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo. I have been saying this as long as I can remember.

[Scuba Chuck]

If you're interested in maximizing +$EV situations, ROI, and $/hr, I think you make this call.

If you are timid about the buyin, and want this game to LAST, then fold.

[lacky]

unless I know one of the players is you, i'm calling, everytime. If it's donks or unknown players you can't put them on AA accurately enough to fold this.

Have YOU had any recent head trauma ilya? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]

Have YOU had any recent head trauma ilya? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. Was wondering the same.

[valenzuela]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're interested in maximizing +$EV situations, ROI, and $/hr, I think you make this call.

If you are timid about the buyin, and want this game to LAST, then fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you winning more than 33% of the time?? because if ure not, calling is kinda moronic.

What did the others had?
Dzsenaj

[stupidsucker]

Who is in your avatar?

[Degen]

never

not even then

never

[jedinite]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a semantic point, but---- I definitely don't use the word "favorite" in the same manner as you.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're correct. I should have said "you win this hand 20% of the time" etc.

Don't be the bad egg! hahaha