ya or nay on the river

[irishpint]

Absolute 2/4 6max 25/17 opens UTG, 1 CC, 1 3bet TT on the button and the SB comes along. So 4 to the flop. Comes Q45 checked to me, I bet and all call. Turn is a 9, checked to me and I bet and only the PFR calls. River is a 6 and I check behind. Weak? Do I need to bet this? How often do I see JJ/KQ/AQ vs AK (calling river bet) and lower PP that didn't hit the board?

[milesdyson]

i would not bet the river, and i'm hesitant about betting that turn

[Guruman]

I like a checkthrough there. you won't get a better hand to fold much here, and you can't stand a raise so you might as well just show down.

[Guruman]

[ QUOTE ]
i would not bet the river, and i'm hesitant about betting that turn

[/ QUOTE ]

betting the turn may get us to showdown, since checking through there is likely to induce a bet that we can't call from a player holding two cards.

[milesdyson]

25/17 are decent preflop stats. he probably reads 2+2, to be honest.

give him a hand range (also remember there's another two guys here who called our flop bet).

[irishpint]

[ QUOTE ]
i would not bet the river, and i'm hesitant about betting that turn

[/ QUOTE ]

the turn bet is very good IMO because if im check raised in a protected pot i can easily fold, plus the ability to win the pot or get a free showdown. also, folding someone w/ an A or K is also worth it- i'm in a situation where a free card can hurt me.

I put this guy on AK or JJ-66. Any guy with those stats will pop you on the turn imo with a AQ,KQ,QJ,99,QQ,KK,AA. So I think your hand is good actually. Bet and see JJ or AK or something similar.

[Guruman]

[ QUOTE ]
25/17 are decent preflop stats. he probably reads 2+2, to be honest.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, because everyone who has ok pf numbers reads 2+2. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]
give him a hand range (also remember there's another two guys here who called our flop bet).

[/ QUOTE ]

allright, A9+, KJ+, 77+, and maybe the occasional frisky middle suited connecor.

we cant let worse pairs or UI overcards draw for free to beat us.

Also, checking this turn induces a bluff on the river, so by checking here we've already given up on a hand we may be leading.

[milesdyson]

how are you giving this guy A9/AT/AJ/KJ? base the range on preflop and flop action. should we assume this guy is bad enough to check call an A-high hand that isn't AK (and he didn't cap preflop, so AK is unlikely to begin with)?

not to mention there's a guy who coldcalled preflop and another one who called 2.5 bets out of the small blind, and they ALL called your flop bet on a Q45 rainbow board

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would not bet the river, and i'm hesitant about betting that turn

[/ QUOTE ]

the turn bet is very good IMO because if im check raised in a protected pot i can easily fold, plus the ability to win the pot or get a free showdown. also, folding someone w/ an A or K is also worth it- i'm in a situation where a free card can hurt me.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Absolute 2/4 6max 25/17 opens UTG, 1 CC, 1 3bet TT on the button and the SB comes along. So 4 to the flop. Comes Q45 checked to me, I bet and all call. Turn is a 9, checked to me and I bet and only the PFR calls. River is a 6 and I check behind. Weak? Do I need to bet this? How often do I see JJ/KQ/AQ vs AK (calling river bet) and lower PP that didn't hit the board?

[/ QUOTE ]

Reads are better than stats.

Generically, I like betting the turn and I like checking behind on the river.

[Guruman]

[ QUOTE ]
how are you giving this guy A9/AT/AJ/KJ? base the range on preflop and flop action. should we assume this guy is bad enough to check call an A-high hand that isn't AK (and he didn't cap preflop, so AK is unlikely to begin with)?

[/ QUOTE ]

You asked for a range, I gave a range. I have seen more than a few ok pf guy checks and call with ace high here because the pot is big and they like the two pretty faces. Maybe he has a backdoor flush draw. He certainly doesn't have the queen or he would have checkraised the flop or just led out. What range do you have him on?

[ QUOTE ]
not to mention there's a guy who coldcalled preflop and another one who called 2.5 bets out of the small blind, and they ALL called your flop bet on a Q45 rainbow board

[/ QUOTE ] any lower pair, A4s, A5s, K4s, K5s, backdoor flush draws, and even some backdoor straight draws are calling for one bet in a large pot. EP coldcallers are weak postflop when they miss. I'd not be surprised to see a very wide range of hands here.

Big pot. Ace high. Must call. glub glub.

I mean think about it. What hands would you coldcall with, check call this flop, and then check fold the turn? what range is that? It's fish range!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif