SB with 22

[curtains]

You are in a $100 pokerstars tournament, and its the third round. You have 1200 in chips and have 22 in the SB with 25 - 50 blinds. Everyone folds to you. The BB has 1800 in chips. What do you do?

Which option is best and which are the worst?

A - Raise all in
B - Raise to 300
C - Raise to 150
D - Call
E - Fold

[PuppetMaster]

If you are gonna raise go all in.
I probally just call, hope for a set and play it by year.

[Justaloser]

I think that all-in is not good. If you get called, you're either WAY behind or it's a coin flip. Third round is too early to gamble all your chips.

I think a raise is a very good idea. The only difference in the two amounts would be whether the BB would call 150, but would fold 300.

Calling would be ok, if you feel that you can outplay him on the flop. Personally, I have bad luck with this. They always seem to hit a pair (or two), but are scared and will just call it down.

I think that folding is not good either. You're ahead of
over 90% of all hands.

[JayKon]

If you make a simple raise (because its limit, or just cause) then you're giving the BB 3:1 on his call. Since a raise from the SB just look like a steal, you don't want to do that as any hand is worth a call for 3:1, if up against a random hand.

All in is just plain foolish at level 3, pre-flop with 22.

I would probably raise 3xBB 200T and see what the BB does. he will be getting 150:250 (~1.7:1) to call, which will make a fold correct for most hands.

However, before making the decision; how has the BB been playing? Is he the type to re-raise you, has he been tight/loose, has he been passive/agressive?

All in all, I would probably raise to 200T-300T.

Jay

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I guess the best thing to do would be to put in a raise big enough so it's obviously not a steal, but small enough so you can get away from it if he goes all-in over top (I wouldn't want to go all-in here). Make it 250 and see what happens. He'll usually fold. As JayKon said tho, be careful if he's aggressive or tricky. If that's the case, you're probably better off just folding.

al

[PuppetMaster]

I do not like the idea of raising with 22 from the small blind. If your opponent calls he is likely to call you on
the flop thinking you are trying to steal. After seeing 4 cards there is a good chance he has made a pair, and without a set you are finished.
The right move imo is to simply call him. If he raises, assuming you have a weak hand and a two flops, there is a decent chance to take alot of money off of him and maybe even bust him out of the game.

[JayKon]

So, you're advising a weak-tight play as the superior style in a tournament?

[PuppetMaster]

What I am advising is nto pining your hopes on 22 int he third round. If you raise 3XBB are called. Bet on the flop are called. You are now beat and out 4XBB.

[JayKon]

Well, I only get called on a steal about 1 in 4 and about half of those fold to the flop bet. Of the rest, I win some and loose some. Overall, if I have to check-fold on the turn, I'm still ahead overall on the play.

So basically, so what if I loose 5 BB on the play? If I can't stand the risk, I'm probably shouldn't be in the game to begin with.

Jay

[PuppetMaster]

Personally, I would perfer to eliminate risk and allow my ability to outplay my opponent determine whether I win or lose, as oppposed to luck. Another problem with raising him is the posibility of being reraised. If reraised what would you do?

[Justaloser]

I disagree with this. While you're right that he will put you on a steal, what do you think that he will put you on if you just call? If you raise, he must at least consider the fact that you have a hand. If you follow up with a raise on the flop, he better have a good hand (unless you're a known bluffer).

If you just call, you're basically hoping to hit a two outer, not including str or flush possibilities. If that's what you're trying to do, I'd say you're better off mucking and saving half a bet.

Also, you say that raising and getting called and getting raised on the flop means you lose 4xBB. Personally, I think I can win those bets back later on.

[PuppetMaster]

Betting 22 isn't far off form betting 2-7. What you are doing is trying to do is steal the blinds. If this was a game with four people at the table I think it is definitely the right move. But at a ten person tournament table, I think its too early to be gambling that someone else will fold. When you attempt to steal the blinds, you still have a chance to win the hand after the flop if the person calls; with the exception of a set, 22 is going to have a very hard time standing up. I guess its just a difference of opinion. Call me weak-tight.

Also, if you are not discipled this hand can easily cost you alot of money. It really is a tricky hand.

[PuppetMaster]

Reading the posts over again. I think the raise is the correct move. Being that over a period of time this play would be profitable. However, if called I am not sure that I would bet the flop and if reraised I would likely fold.

[Rickfish]

OK, here is my marking:

A - Raise all in ........ 0 points
B - Raise to 300 ........ 7 points
C - Raise to 150 ........ 10 points
D - Call ................ 1 point
E - Fold ................ 1 point

raise to 150 = raise pot, i.e. 2-1 for the BB. If he re-raises I fold, if he calls I pray for a 2, if he passes I will get the expected result. While I agree that the BB is less likely to just call for a 250 raise he will also play back on the same hands regardless. I am folding to a re-raise so I'd rather not put in 300 to try to win a small pot. Generally if I was going to raise I would always raise to 150 in this position so all hands are bet the same way : the BB doesn't know if I have 22, KK, AK, 72, or whatever. If I start betting big when I want him to fold and small if I don't then I will get into trouble against someone who notices these things.

[Justaloser]

But the original post says that it was folded to the SB.

Now it's heads up against the BB. You've probably got the better hand (although a very vunerable one), and by calling you've given your opponent a free chance to beat you.

If you just call and don't flop a set, you cannot feel good about your hand.
If you raise and miss, you can still put the BB to a test.

This of course, does depend on the type of player that the BB is. If he will call down if he hits top pair, then you're in trouble anyway.

If we were talking UTG or EP, I definitely would not consider raising.

[JayKon]

It depends on the player, though most likely I muck.

[ohkanada]

I think it really depends on the BB. If he has been defending his blind then I don't like raising. I would either call or fold. If he has folded to possible steals then I make it 200 to go.

Raising all-in is the worst choice by far.

Ken Poklitar

[gunboat]

In isolation, this is not necessarily a weak tight play. I will (very) occasionally smooth call in this position to vary my play. If you have open raised a few times, BB may fear a trap. If you flop a set while BB flops top pair, you stand to pick up a lot of chips. If BB raises, muck and look to use this play later with a real hand. If BB usually defends, I will muck and look for a better opportunity. 22 is, at best, a tiny favorite against any hand without a 2 and after the flop you are out of position and probably with no clue as to where you stand.

Play on a single hand cannot be viewed in isolation. It must be part of a complete tournament strategy.

/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

If you are gonna raise go all in.

What!!???! The only hands that call beat you. Every pair is an overpair.

[fnurt]

I thought this was an interesting thread. Really not clear how to handle the situation, difficult problem. Then tonight in the Stars PL event I got dealt 22 in the SB and it was folded around to me...

I had probably 3x the BB's stack, but he was fairly deep. I remembered him as an aggressive player who would probably raise automatically if I completed, so I chose to raise the minimum. He called.

Flop was Q98, not my first choice. Although there are a lot of ways he could hit this flop, the same is true for me, so I bet 2/3 of the pot. If he raises or calls I'm done of course. He called.

Turn was a 2...

BB proceeded to call my big turn and river bets and lost his entire stack. Then he called me a moron, which I might well be, but I wonder what that makes him for calling all those bets with 77 (his actual hand!)

I don't understand how 77 doesn't raise preflop or on the flop and obviously if he does I'm gone. I know I would reraise preflop. And doesn't he have to fold or raise on the flop? (Personally, I think I would fold my short stack to 3 overcards in his shoes, but if he really believes I don't have a pair, shouldn't he raise and win a nice pot right there?)

[PuppetMaster]

Like I stated earlier in this thread, raising with 22 isnt far off form raising with 27. You are trying to steal the Big Blind. If he reraises your finished. If he calls and you do not flop a set in this position, you have put yourself in a position to make mistakes. You have the option of betting again and trying to steal. However, it is likely that he has made a pair, draw, ect.
Now if you bet the minimum, it is very unlikely that he will fodl after calling the original raise. Bet more than the minimum and you are gonna lose even more.
Very tricky hand that is easier to play with a set,- NH by the way. I love when people call u an idiot for busting them out.

[ohkanada]

Nice hand, or should I say nice turn /forums/images/icons/smile.gif I agree your opponent should have raised you pre-flop. Not sure why he would call all the way with 3 overcards on the flop.

In the original post the tricky thing is the smallish stack. With blinds of 25-50 and a stack of 1200, you would hate to raise to 150 and then bet (250) out on the flop, only to get called. Because now you have lost 1/3 of your stack on 22. You have no position and unless you get a 2 on the turn you can't keep on betting. Or you now need to go all-in with bottom pair and 4 overcards.

Ken Poklitar

[fnurt]

Incidentally, a big part of my decision to play the hand at all was the fact that I had BB outchipped by a lot. If the situations were reversed I probably would have just folded pre-flop. It's not like 22 is a monster.

I went on to finish 2nd in this tournament, so it was a pretty good deuce... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[Rickfish]

I just had this in a 1 table on Pokerstars. BB had slightly more chips than me. Neither of us under any pressure (about 2100 & 3000). I made it 150, he called. Flop J62, I bet 100 into 300 pot, he called. Turn J, I check he bets 200, I call. River 6, I bet 200 he calls, I win. I think I should bet a bit more on the end as he probably thinks he is at least splitting it with an Ace (bad kicker).

[fnurt]

He could have a 6 though. Are you calling if he raises you all-in on the end? If not, you might not want to put too many of your chips at stake.

[JayKon]

You are right, since playing 22 weak is the type of play people will remember.