oh no! the ace hits what do i do what do i do what do i do what do i d

[TStoneMBD]

30/60 7 handed

i raise from the CO with QQ, button (42/25/1.75) coldcalls, blinds fold.

flop is T75 two spades

i bet, he calls

turn is offsuit A

i check with the intention of calling down

how did i do?

just for discussions sake, if i raised this from UTG instead in a 7 handed game does it alter the turn decision at all?

for those that like a bet do you like bet/call or bet/fold

I bet this. I'm not used to playing these types of players thou. He has a large hand range here. My feeling is that he will call a majority of the times with hands that you beat. You also protect your hand from gutshot draws and the like.

It would be a bet/call, thats given no extra reads. Reasess on the river. Maybe check/fold with a river flush card.

Trent.

[Spicymoose]

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Maybe check/fold with a river flush card.


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I don't know what line is best, but this surely can't be right. He will often bluff that scare card with his busted KQ or KJ.

[jba]

this is surprisingly tricky. I'm always amazed at how "I have QQ out of position and an ace hits, what now" can keep being a new question.

anyways, I'm going to throw out this suggestion:


check/call the turn. If he has total BS or a pocket pair or FD or whatever there is a good chance he'll try to pick up the pot here. there is also a good chance he'll raise these hands if we bet (along with raising his Ax hands) and that is a tough spot.

then bet/call the river - don't let all his pairs check behind. this guy just seems to aggressive to fold there, but maybe I'm a fish.

I'm actually thinking we're in a better spot when we raise this UTG - a lot less cheesy aces calling in that spot, I would guess. I like to check out their CC% in situations like this, even for 45/25 guys this will vary wildly.

[fyodor]

I think you should be betting, unless you are positive this guy will bluff bet for you. Otherwise you are giving him a free card with a flush draw, or with KJ, or JT, or whatever.

If raised, I fold, unless this guy bluff raises a lot. But if he is that kind of a bluffer, he is probably the same guy you can check too.

[fyodor]

If you are checking, what makes it easier to play is if you have done a noticable amount of check raising recently. He is then less likely to bluff, and it makes folding easier.

[TStoneMBD]

why would i want him to check behind with bluffs? im not checkfolding and im checking hoping he tries to move me off my hand.

[TStoneMBD]

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I'm always amazed at how "I have QQ out of position and an ace hits, what now" can keep being a new question.

[/ QUOTE ]

yah i know, these posts come up all the time so my thread is boring. its still a situation i have trouble handling tho and i need your help to make me stronger.

[jba]

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I'm always amazed at how "I have QQ out of position and an ace hits, what now" can keep being a new question.

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yah i know, these posts come up all the time so my thread is boring. its still a situation i have trouble handling tho and i need your help to make me stronger.

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well I wasn't being sarcastic at all. my point was QQ on a T75A board with two spades heads up against a 45/25/2 is night and day different than AJ2r four way against a bunch of loose passives, etc. I like your post and was commenting on how many different situations there are and how the best course varies widely depending on the tiniest things....

[setjes]

I like the c/c turn and river line against players that leave me a hard decision when get raised and may very well (bluf)bet themselves. So I like it

[TStoneMBD]

oh i was at all offended by your comments, i was just agreeing that its interesting how these hands always come up. there seems to be no right answer.

[thejameser]

if the turn checks through do you bet the river?

[RyGreen18]

i like bet/fold here, even if the guy is sorta aggressive. what hands is he CCing with? hard to put him on a solid range, maybe mid PP's on Axs. and how often is he going to bet as a bluff. i think bet/fold and calling down both have merit...

[krishanleong]

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there seems to be no right answer.

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Ding, ding, ding.

Krishan

[Spicymoose]

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there seems to be no right answer.

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Ding, ding, ding.

Krishan

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If you make a model for your opponent, and what his likely actions are with any given hand, there is a right answer. The problem here is that the situation is kinda complicated, and that we don't know enough about the opponent to be entirely accurate as to what his predicted moves would be. We could try, and may come up with an answer that gives us the correct line, but if you shift his possible plays, our line suddenly may be wrong.

This doesn't mean there is no right answer. It just means that we have to do as best we can in predicting what our opponent will do, and then come up with the complicated formulas to figure out what is right given that.

[Subfallen]

If Button isn't tricky, easy bet-fold I think. Otherwise I like a check-raise 33% of the time, with the remaining 67% being check-call.

Whether you call the river depends on reads and possible timing tells.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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there seems to be no right answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ding, ding, ding.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

If you make a model for your opponent, and what his likely actions are with any given hand, there is a right answer. The problem here is that the situation is kinda complicated, and that we don't know enough about the opponent to be entirely accurate as to what his predicted moves would be. We could try, and may come up with an answer that gives us the correct line, but if you shift his possible plays, our line suddenly may be wrong.

This doesn't mean there is no right answer. It just means that we have to do as best we can in predicting what our opponent will do, and then come up with the complicated formulas to figure out what is right given that.

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You are right. And if interpreted loosely, we are saying the same thing.

Generally bet-fold is the right move. I mix it up with check-call, check-fold, check-call down.

Krishan

[Lmn55d]

I think this is a great spot for check/call, check/call and it's how I would play it. A guy with these stats will often take a stab when you check to him and will sometimes bluff the river too. If he does take a free card he will often have very few outs, as this sort of player would usually push any pair or draw on the flop.

Also, he might have a hand like Q9 that would fold to a turn bet, but might pair on the river and pay you off (you should value bet the river if he checks through).

EDIT: If I decided to bet against this player it would be with the intention of calling down if raised. I would usually only do this if I thought a bluff raise was pretty likely. I think you're giving up too much by bet/folding against an aggressive player who has a wide flop peeling range and is not afraid to raise the turn as a bluff or free showdown raise. 1.75 AF for a 42 VPIP is VERY aggressive.

[TStoneMBD]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a great spot for check/call, check/call and it's how I would play it. A guy with these stats will often take a stab when you check to him and will sometimes bluff the river too. If he does take a free card he will often have very few outs, as this sort of player would usually push any pair or draw on the flop.

Also, he might have a hand like Q9 that would fold to a turn bet, but might pair on the river and pay you off (you should value bet the river if he checks through).

EDIT: If I decided to bet against this player it I would call down if raised. I would usually only do this if I thought a bluff raise was pretty likely. I think you're giving up too much by bet/folding against an aggressive player who has a wide flop peeling range and is not afraid to raise the turn as a bluff or free showdown raise.

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i like your whole thought process and i agree with everything. the only problem is that its hard to trust you though cause you suck at life :P

[oreogod]

I agree with the move if hes going to pop u with more than an ace here. If hes pulling a free showdown, late draw/pair turn raise sort of thing, thereby putting u in a tough spot in which u may be forced to call down whether behind or ahead, then c/c is good especially if he cant help himself and will take stabs at the pot when u check.

Unless he was going to raise the turn with anything he flopped, he probably doesnt have much, he could have an ace or Kx etc...but most of the time hes pushing anything worthwhile on the flop...your hand doesnt really need protection and u dont want to call more bets then u have to when behind, yet, you want to make the most when ahead...and if u are ahead u want to get more bets out of him, alot of these guys love to autobet when checked to...I use the Pokerace Bet flop/turn/river stat here (percentage of time they bet street when checked to) These spots are always intresting.