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11-11-2005, 05:51 AM
This was a 2000 player tournament. I was contemplating going all-in after the flop as I probably had 12 outs. Would that have been reasonable considering his bet is probably for value (no reads) ?

NL Texas Hold'em Trny:16971498 Level:1 Blinds (10/15)
Table Multi-Table(497778) Table #181 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: UTG+1 ( $860 )
Seat 2: UTG+2 ( $980 )
Seat 3: MP ( $665 )
Seat 4: MP+1 ( $1175 )
Seat 5: LP ( $970 )
Seat 6: CO ( $975 )
Seat 7: Hero(Button) ( $970 )
Seat 8: SB ( $1145 )
Seat 9: BB ( $1260 )
Seat 10: UTG ( $1155 )
Trny:16971498 Level:1
Blinds (10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero(Button) [ Ah 9h ]
UTG folds.
UTG+1 folds.
UTG+2 calls [15].
MP calls [15].
MP+1 calls [15].
LP calls [15].
CO folds.
Hero(Button) calls [15].
SB calls [5].
BB checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kh, 8h, 5d ]
SB checks.
BB checks.
UTG+2 bets [105].
MP folds.
MP+1 folds.
LP folds.
Hero(Button) ?????

11-11-2005, 09:57 AM
Calling is a viable option if you think it might convince one of the blinds to come in behind you. Another call will probably hurt UTG+2's equity a lot more than it will hurt yours, and it will improve your pot odds to draw to the flush. The one thing you don't want is for a second caller to kill some of your outs by calling with middlepair and A kicker. But you don't mind another K sticking around, and you certainly want to encourage a lower flush draw to stay in.

If you think you have a lot of fold equity against UTG+2, pushing isn't bad. It sounds like this is a cheapo tournament though, with 2000 participants, so a lot of players will happily call a push with top pair. They may also not be bright enough to push the turn, allowing you sufficient odds to see the river, or to fold the river if you hit.

11-11-2005, 10:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
This was a 2000 player tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

What buy-in? I experience with the $5 variety is that you see a lot of "double up or bust" in the very early orbits before the donks "commit" themselves to the tourney. Its more like a $5 blackjack bet. I would call and push/fold on the turn with the flush or an A.

11-11-2005, 10:22 AM
Well, if I call, then I am putting in about 100 chips to the 200 in the pot and that 2:1 is probably not enough just to see one card as the odds are 2.9:1 to get the flush or an Ace on the turn.

If I go all in and put them all in then I need odds of 1.2 to 1 in the hope of making an Ace or a flush (12 outs) with the turn & river. I think I am getting these odds as I have to call about 100 making the pot 300 and then raise all in about 850 so:
(his 850 possible call + 300 pot) divided by my raise of 850 is 1.35:1

I think that calculation is right?
The question is whether I need to do this and because it is a big 2000 player tournament whether I would be better to make this move and increase my chip count fairly dramatically?

11-11-2005, 10:33 AM
Yeah, it was a $2 buy in, which is why so many people entered...

gobboboy
11-11-2005, 10:42 AM
I would raise to about 300 to be able to take a free card. If he pushes (doubtful) then I would probably puke and call.

11-11-2005, 11:18 AM
I would call. Your implied odds are good, as is your position. By raising all in you loose that positional advantage. If a blank comes on the turn then you'll have to see what kind of a raise your facing and decide accordingly.

11-11-2005, 11:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I would raise to about 300 to be able to take a free card. If he pushes (doubtful) then I would probably puke and call.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your going to raise and call any push, why not push all-in to begin with to increase your FE? A raise to 300 makes no sence if your going to call when he comes over the top.

That being said, I flat call the flop ... your implied odds and chances youll string another caller with you is enough.

11-11-2005, 04:43 PM
Usually when someone pots or overbets the pot this early especially in a low buy-in tournament, I think he is usually comfortable enough to make a play for all his chips right away. His mindset is to double-through or start the next tourney, so I don't think you have enough FE here to make a push very +EV. Like someone mentioned, it's like a $5 blackjack bet.

But you do have a draw to the nuts, position, and an opponent who will likely pay you off. You also may draw in another opponent by calling. Knocking out a better ace with a raise is not worth nearly as much as hitting your flush and getting paid full value for it or being able to fold the turn if you miss and are bet into strongly.