$55's... Poker > My Business History Paper... Ah, procrastination

[bigt439]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Hero (t1620)
SB (t2065)
BB (t1305)
UTG (t1770)
MP (t2793)
CO (t447)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls t150, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero ?

Why do I not know what to do in these situations?

[bones]

How often has MP limped so far?

[J-Lo]

fold

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
How often has MP limped so far?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is important. I'm okay with limping, folding, or pushing here. Read dependent. I think I'd lean toward limping. Yes, I know. I like to play postflop. Sue me.

[ace_in_the_hole]

This is a VERY good post IMO. I think with that stack I would limp, if I was closer to 1200 I would push and get caleld by big stack who limped AA. Good post. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
How often has MP limped so far?

[/ QUOTE ]

A general rule with my posts is that I don't have any reads. This is because I simply send my hand histories to myself while I'm playing them and go over them often 1 or 2 weeks after they've actually occurred. It's unfortunate because it would be nice to outline a given situation better, but it's also nice because then people address the situation given different reads.

So in short, I have no idea how much MP has limped.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Replies like this are starting to bother me more and more lately, and I know I'm guilty of doing it sometimes myself. If the question is an easy one or you're echoing the general concensus of a group, then one word answers are cool.

But replies like this, in this situation, aren't helping me or any of the other posters. At all.

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
So in short, I have no idea how much MP has limped.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's a chronic limper but will fold to a raise, I'll push.

If he's a chronic limper that doesn't like to be pushed around and will call with KJ,77 etc. I'll call.

If he rarely limps, I'll pass.

If he limps once or twice per orbit, I'll call (although I think calling here is inviting aggressive players from the blinds to push and pick up all of the dead money).

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So in short, I have no idea how much MP has limped.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's a chronic limper but will fold to a raise, I'll push.

If he's a chronic limper that doesn't like to be pushed around and will call with KJ,77 etc. I'll call.

If he rarely limps, I'll pass.

If he limps once or twice per orbit, I'll call (although I think calling here is inviting aggressive players from the blinds to push and pick up all of the dead money).

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks dude. I appreciate the input and taking the time to outline different scenarios. To me it seems like the best way to really analyze a hand anyways, but I know it can be a pain writing 2 or 3 responses.

[bennies]

[ QUOTE ]
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So in short, I have no idea how much MP has limped.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's a chronic limper but will fold to a raise, I'll push.

If he's a chronic limper that doesn't like to be pushed around and will call with KJ,77 etc. I'll push .

If he rarely limps, I'll pass.

If he limps once or twice per orbit, I'll push .

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks dude. I appreciate the input and taking the time to outline different scenarios.

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate it too /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[applejuicekid]

I am suprised by the general tone of this thread. Unless the Villain is known to rarely limp and only do so with KK or AA isn't this a standard push? I think you will have the best hand here and not be called a lot of the time. I will push with a much weaker holding than AT.

[the_joker]

[ QUOTE ]
A general rule with my posts is that I don't have any reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

PokerAce or similar software is very important in these situations. If they have a VP$IP of 40% or something then push. If it's 10%, then you could be in trouble.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So in short, I have no idea how much MP has limped.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's a chronic limper but will fold to a raise, I'll push.

If he's a chronic limper that doesn't like to be pushed around and will call with KJ,77 etc. I'll call.

If he rarely limps, I'll pass.

If he limps once or twice per orbit, I'll call (although I think calling here is inviting aggressive players from the blinds to push and pick up all of the dead money).

[/ QUOTE ]


All that sounds good. What if you have no read?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A general rule with my posts is that I don't have any reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

PokerAce or similar software is very important in these situations. If they have a VP$IP of 40% or something then push. If it's 10%, then you could be in trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great suggestion, but with the relative infrequency of playing with the same people how can you use this data reliably with a small sample size? So he's involved in 4/10 hands that you have data on so far - that means nothing at this point. If I had 1000 hands on the player it may be a different story.

I use PT and PAHud as well, but it's important to be able to pickup on peoples play styles without the crutch. Pay attention to the hands you aren't playing in and figure out the player. You can usually tell when someone is weak-tight or LAG (as well as other styles) just by paying attention.

[zambonidrivr]

I have done both in this situations over about q4309578203948524385294385 sng's. I by far prefer folding this. With your stack, I would rather push any 2 than push this over a caller. That's just me and it's worked out, for limits $33-109's

"You can ovserve a lot just by watchin" - Yogi Berra.

[Kristian]

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Why do I not know what to do in these situations?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it is a borderline situation. Any option (folding pushing, standard raise) is open to you, and you won't lose much EV chosing either one.

If I have seen him limp even once with big blinds without a monster, I am personally raising or pushing (depending on amount of table action), since I see so many people limping QTo or some other crap in this position, and I feel many of them know enough not to call raises with those hands.

[bigt439]

My thoughts. A raise is awkward because it leaves me with so little after the flop. If I miss the flop it's very hard to c-bet, and if I hit the flop I could easily be behind anyways. I'd hate to have to move in on any board to be called by low pp's and the like. I don't think he folds very much either after limping.

I don't like folding because that's no fun. But seriously, I think those reasons are obvious. I have a good hand with good position and no one has really shown too much strength sooo.

And pushing seems like a decent option, but it seems like a very risky spot considering I think I'm beat or flipping a decent portion of the time. Mmmmm, nah now that I'm writing this I think I go push. If he has AJ whatever. A flip's not the end of the world, and he folds a bunch. I think push is the best play.

I do not understand this title as it does not apply to what you ask anyway this is the easy ALL IN becase bad guy has the not g00t hand.

[stupidsucker]

No one has even mentioned the SB behind, so I guess it isnt important. I thought it was relevant, but ive been wrong before...

I feel very good about my stack at the 55s here and would probably fold without a semi-read on the limper and the blinds behind me.

[Lori]

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What if you have no read?

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Then there is something more wrong with your game than playing ATo after a limper.

Lori

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What if you have no read?

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Then there is something more wrong with your game than playing ATo after a limper.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

See my post earlier in the thread.

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
If he's a chronic limper but will fold to a raise, I'll push.

If he's a chronic limper that doesn't like to be pushed around and will call with KJ,77 etc. I'll call.

If he rarely limps, I'll pass.

If he limps once or twice per orbit, I'll call (although I think calling here is inviting aggressive players from the blinds to push and pick up all of the dead money).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is an excellent response and I would play it in much the same way if I was single-tabling and had good reads.

If I was multi-tabling and had no reads, I would probably just fold in this spot. (I just started multi-tabling and I can barely keep up with the action and usually don't have reads until very late.)

[skipperbob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So in short, I have no idea how much MP has limped.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's a chronic limper but will fold to a raise, I'll push.

If he's a chronic limper that doesn't like to be pushed around and will call with KJ,77 etc. I'll call.

If he rarely limps, I'll pass.

If he limps once or twice per orbit, I'll call (although I think calling here is inviting aggressive players from the blinds to push and pick up all of the dead money).

[/ QUOTE ]

Bones; you pedantic littleshit, you give me a headache with all this on-topic nonsense /images/graemlins/blush.gif

You're not helping. The OP earlier said:

"A general rule with my posts is that I don't have any reads."

When multitabling (which is always) I think it's fair to say that I will always have a read on some of the big stacks at some of my tables but I will never have a read on all the big stacks at all of my tables. It's not ideal but that's the way it is and I'm sure that's the way it is for many other players who are nevertheless winning players.


To OP, I routinely fold here. I'm thinking that I'm in fine shape here with over 10 BB left and I'm sure I will get a better opportunity than to play AT against a big stack without a read. If I'm the big stack and you raise me you will be in trouble though to be fair I will almost never openlimp like the bigstack did. If I am though I may just be trying to be cute with AA and you're sick.

I can sure see the argument for raising however, maybe I should be adding plays like raising here to my game - I've been thinking that I hardly ever resteal so I suppose I can't be playing optimally. Then again I think I pick a spot for a resteal better like where my stack is a little more confortable in relation with the blinds, losing 1770 with AT here when the BB is only 150 would be ugly.

Calling seems the worst of your options.

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
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How often has MP limped so far?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is important. I'm okay with limping, folding, or pushing here. Read dependent. I think I'd lean toward limping. Yes, I know. I like to play postflop. Sue me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I'll sue you. If you limp, you end up playing the hand with 4 people and with worse reverse-implied odds than implied odds. It's a lot of your stack, but I think I would rather min-raise to fold the blinds, let limper call and miss the flop and then take the pot from there. I'd rather push or fold than that though.

Which one? Dunno, too close to call outside of the game I think, but in a vacuum, I guess fold.

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
Bones; you pedantic littleshit, you give me a headache with all this on-topic nonsense

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You sure the headache isn't from waking up at 4am to play sngs?

[BS Yee]

For what it's worth . . .

ATo is a borderline raise or fold for me in this situation and I would opt to fold. If it were ATs then I would definitely call. I would put him on Ax with a weak kicker but is it worth it to see the flop? If I had AK-AJ, it's an easy push for me. A9o is still borderline and I've worked hard to throw A8 - A2 away completely in this specific circumstance.

So you like to see the flop? Have you already made decisions about how to play post flop if you call? Suppose A 9 8 rainbow came on the flop. If he has A9 or A8, very possible for an early limp, then you are behind. If he has A7 - A2, he can bet again and put pressure on you. If there are two suited cards on the board, it makes it even more dangerous.

I'd fold and wait for a situation when I get be first in with a raise.