Large 4-way pot after Villians bluff fails

[IIMAJIKII]

The hand right before this, the guy who is all in pre check-raises me with dry Aces, but I call and take down the pot. That was an all in hand.

The hand right after that, this hand comes up.
The reason I reraise pre, is to get the other bigstack out, but I guess that since he now know what I hold, he had to call with any decent connected hand. I did NOT want that call!

On the turn I bet to build the empty sidepot. Had he (the other bigstack )raised me here, I would have folded, as I would, had he bet on the flop.

River gives me my flush, but paires the board. I really felt I should have bet here, since I didn't put bigstack on a set. Was I wrong to check?


PokerStars Game #3027540976: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2005/11/11 - 00:21:57 (ET)
Table 'Hypatia III' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: woooooz ($109.30 in chips)
Seat 2: Dolly J.Lo. ($998.90 in chips)
Seat 3: AILAJAMES ($274.10 in chips)
Seat 4: SuperNo:1 ($179.70 in chips)
Seat 5: luckywinners ($366 in chips)
Seat 6: ANILIHATOR ($172.05 in chips)
Seat 8: CoopCoop ($1021.20 in chips)
Seat 9: cantona ($406.60 in chips)
ANILIHATOR: posts small blind $2
CoopCoop: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Dolly J.Lo. [Qs 4h As Ah]
cantona: folds
woooooz: folds
Dolly J.Lo.: raises $10 to $14
AILAJAMES: calls $14
SuperNo:1: folds
luckywinners: folds
ANILIHATOR: raises $46 to $60
CoopCoop: calls $56
Dolly J.Lo.: raises $194 to $254
AILAJAMES: calls $240
ANILIHATOR: calls $112.05 and is all-in
CoopCoop: calls $194
*** FLOP *** [7c 3c 5s]
CoopCoop: checks
Dolly J.Lo.: checks
AILAJAMES: bets $20.10 and is all-in
CoopCoop: calls $20.10
Dolly J.Lo.: calls $20.10
*** TURN *** [7c 3c 5s] [4s]
CoopCoop: checks
Dolly J.Lo.: bets $176
SuperNo:1 is connected
CoopCoop: calls $176
*** RIVER *** [7c 3c 5s 4s] [3s]
CoopCoop: checks
Dolly J.Lo.: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CoopCoop: shows [6h 5d 8c 8h] (a straight, Four to Eight)
Dolly J.Lo.: shows [Qs 4h As Ah] (a flush, Ace high)
Dolly J.Lo. collected $352 from side pot-2
AILAJAMES: mucks hand
Dolly J.Lo. collected $306.15 from side pot-1
ANILIHATOR: shows [5c 7s 3d 2h] (a full house, Threes full of Sevens)
ANILIHATOR collected $685.20 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1346.35 Main pot $685.20. Side pot-1 $306.15. Side pot-2 $352. | Rake $3
Board [7c 3c 5s 4s 3s]
Seat 1: woooooz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Dolly J.Lo. showed [Qs 4h As Ah] and won ($658.15) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 3: AILAJAMES mucked [Ts 7h 9d Ad]
Seat 4: SuperNo:1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: luckywinners (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ANILIHATOR (small blind) showed [5c 7s 3d 2h] and won ($685.20) with a full house, Threes full of Sevens
Seat 8: CoopCoop (big blind) showed [6h 5d 8c 8h] and lost with a straight, Four to Eight
Seat 9: cantona folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[joewatch]

I think you should have value bet the river. Maybe 1/4 to 1/2 pot to get a weaker flush to call.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should have value bet the river. Maybe 1/4 to 1/2 pot to get a weaker flush to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I calculated the remaining stacks correctly, he had around 1/2 the total of the sidepot and main pot left, so he should push (same as 1/2 the total pots), just like he should have done if he didn't have the flush but a straight that was splitting in order to try to bluff the other player out of a split of the side pot in that type of situation.

[IIMAJIKII]

What about my turnbet?
No bet or bet more?

Esp. the turnbet has created a rather interesting discussion between my friend and I, so I'm very interested in hearing some arguments pro/con turnbet.

My rivercheck is an obvious mistake.

[Big Dave D]

Well a whole bunch of interesting things here.

First off, you should mini-reraise preflop. This gives tooti-froot the chance to raise again and then you can really stick it to the limper.

The flop onwards is problematic. This is what happens when you turn your hand over. You have been saved by the ridiculously stupid play of your remaining foe. He maybe should have c-r on the flop. He *absolutely* should have on the turn.

If I was in your shoes, I would have waited for the small bet to c-r the flop.

IMHO the bet on the turn is very ill advised, as you would now have to pass a c-r. And by the betting, he should feel comfortable c-r with as little as a set here.

gl

dd

[BluffTHIS!]

Dave's advice is all the more correct because you have position and forfeit it by betting and getting checkraised and have to pass, especially since the sidepot isn't large enough right then to be worth betting out a remaining player with money left. It is clear that one pair of aces isn't going to win and won't even be best if you spike a set. And a 2 probably isn't going to win either with a higher straight possible. So do you really want to build a big sidepot in these situations when you are fortunate enough to pick up a nut flush draw on the turn and can take a free card?

[ QUOTE ]
Dave's advice is all the more correct because you have position and forfeit it by betting and getting checkraised and have to pass, especially since the sidepot isn't large enough right then to be worth betting out a remaining player with money left. It is clear that one pair of aces isn't going to win and won't even be best if you spike a set. And a 2 probably isn't going to win either with a higher straight possible. So do you really want to build a big sidepot in these situations when you are fortunate enough to pick up a nut flush draw on the turn and can take a free card?

[/ QUOTE ]

I check behind the flop. Too likely CoopCoop is being stubborn with a small set and now looking for a C/R that you cant call on the river. He's solid, but very laggy. He onces re-raised me with QJo98s all in for 400$.