($27) Shortstack semibluff

[durron597]

Alright, so I lost with QQ to a runner runner flush and got really short. Then I push Jc8c in EP with 150 chips on level 3 and got called by 44 and won. Then I fold for a bit, an orbit and a half later I post a 100 bb with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and 440 behind, button limps sb limps I check. flop Axx with 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifs, sb bets 200 I push, he calls with Ace/rag and I hit my /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I fold for the whole next orbit and push AK into a bunch of limpers and show. I push the next hand (my sb folded to me) and then fold for the rest of the orbit. So my image should be pure tight aggressive, but I'll make moves too if anyone is paying attention.

UTG this hand also limped UTG to my AK push and folded. I think his limp is more likely to represent a small PP or a suited ace than it is AA/KK. Then this hand happens:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Button (t625)
SB (t3365)
Hero (t1455)
UTG (t5505)
MP (t2550)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t200, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t600) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1255 (All-In)</font>,

[bawcerelli]

i don't like it. third pair, with only a gutshot to bail you out. hitting your ten is no good if someone calls with a 7, plus someone might call with Ax spades. i know you have a TAG image, but players forget that in the heat of the moment and call anyway. you have a decent stack, continue to take blinds down preflop.

[durron597]

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hitting your ten is no good if someone calls with a 7,

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But he'd have to have a 7 and a pair to be ahead. So I don't mind if A7 calls, and 77 is only one hand. 87 and 76 are also possible but that's a very small fraction of my opponent's range.

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plus someone might call with Ax spades.

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I don't mind this with my stack size and the dead money in the middle unless it's exactly A7 spades.

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you have a decent stack, continue to take blinds down preflop.

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Realize I have a massive chipleader on my left.

[schwza]

i like this. i think you take it down pretty often.

[Jbrochu]

I like this move better against only one opponent, and I'm also concerned that both opponents here have enough chips to look you up with a marginal hand.

[durron597]

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I like this move better against only one opponent, and I'm also concerned that both opponents here have enough chips to look you up with a marginal hand.

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Are you calling with A8 here (no spades) as either opponent?

[bawcerelli]

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But he'd have to have a 7 and a pair to be ahead.

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even if somehow you're ahead, you don't want anybody calling b/c your hand is extremely vulnerable. i'm just worried that somebody will call you, and you've only got third pair. though having that big stack to your left does make a differnce in your preflop play. this is one of those instinct plays you made based on how the table was playing. from a third party view, i think i'd have let it go big stack to the left or not.

[bigt439]

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I like this move better against only one opponent, and I'm also concerned that both opponents here have enough chips to look you up with a marginal hand.

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Are you calling with A8 here (no spades) as either opponent?

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As UTG it would depend on my read of SB, but as SB yes.

You played it fine I think. Check raise if UTG is a better, because then you know you're safe from SB. He's likely to peel tho so only do this if he's very aggro.

[durron597]

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Check raise if UTG is a better,

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If UTG bets I have almost no FE here. Do I really want him to call with KJ anyways?

[schwza]

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Check raise if UTG is a better,

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If UTG bets I have almost no FE here. Do I really want him to call with KJ anyways?

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he needs better than 40% equity to have neutral chipEV. he has under 25%. i think this is enough of a chipEV edge for you that you're willing to gamble.

don't get me wrong though - you're not that excited about it.

[durron597]

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he needs better than 40% equity to have neutral chipEV. he has under 25%. i think this is enough of a chipEV edge for you that you're willing to gamble.

don't get me wrong though - you're not that excited about it.

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Checkraising is actually a line I hadn't considered here really, mostly because if UTG checks behind and the turn doesn't improve me, my equity drops considerably, especially if it pairs someone else.

[Jbrochu]

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Are you calling with A8 here (no spades) as either opponent?

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Probably not as UTG, but probably as SB provided UTG folded.

[schwza]

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he needs better than 40% equity to have neutral chipEV. he has under 25%. i think this is enough of a chipEV edge for you that you're willing to gamble.

don't get me wrong though - you're not that excited about it.

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Checkraising is actually a line I hadn't considered here really, mostly because if UTG checks behind and the turn doesn't improve me, my equity drops considerably, especially if it pairs someone else.

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i agree that a c/r is not great, because there's no reason to believe that utg will bet with no pair and no draw very often. the only nice thing about it is that if utg bets and the SB doesn't fold, you can fold comfortably.

giving a free card is not too horrible though. a 5 sucks, a T is a mixed blessing but you don't hate it, and J-A are all bad. but i still like pushing best.

[bennies]

I like it. You hope/think you're ahead and figure that if they want to draw they have to pay.

Of course this is a value bet and not a semi bluff so perhaps you are pushing for other reasons? Elsewhere in the thread you asked if either villain would call with A8. I think they will, and that they might even call with 8x. I still like pushing though.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I like it. You hope/think you're ahead and figure that if they want to draw they have to pay.

Of course this is a value bet and not a semi bluff so perhaps you are pushing for other reasons? Elsewhere in the thread you asked if either villain would call with A8. I think they will, and that they might even call with 8x. I still like pushing though.

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If this was a value bet, I'm expecting worse hands to call. What worse hands do? I viewed it as a protective bet/try to make naked 7s or 8x or spades fold.

I like it. However, UTG's range is a little scary here. The only worse hand that's calling you here is Ax/images/graemlins/spade.gif, and the only hands that beat you and fold are A8s and maybe 77. Still a nice play given the stack sizes though (you have no maneuvarability if you check).

[bennies]

[ QUOTE ]
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I like it. You hope/think you're ahead and figure that if they want to draw they have to pay.

Of course this is a value bet and not a semi bluff so perhaps you are pushing for other reasons? Elsewhere in the thread you asked if either villain would call with A8. I think they will, and that they might even call with 8x. I still like pushing though.

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If this was a value bet, I'm expecting worse hands to call. What worse hands do? I viewed it as a protective bet/try to make naked 7s or 8x or spades fold.

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It looks to me like we agree then, except on terminology. For me value bet = protective bet, in both cases we are ahead and we charge opponents (to draw or to see a showdown).

[kyro]

I see this less as a semibluff and more as a value bet.

[tigerite]

It's ok.. I'm not terribly in love with it though. What you could do instead is bet for 600 say, giving the impression you're committed to the pot, and are willing to go with it (naturally.. you'd have to call if pushed). But this looks less like a bluff and more like a 'real hand' if you take that line rather than a shove, which looks like a stop-n-go.

[schwza]

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I see this less as a semibluff and more as a value bet.

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this is semantics, but if villain pushes and gets called then the odds he is ahead are close to zero. that makes it a semi-bluff with 6-10 outs. it doesn't matter that you might be ahead of a lot of the hands that are folding to a push - it only matters where you stand against the hands that will call the push.

[durron597]

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I see this less as a semibluff and more as a value bet.

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this is semantics, but if villain pushes and gets called then the odds he is ahead are close to zero. that makes it a semi-bluff with 6-10 outs. it doesn't matter that you might be ahead of a lot of the hands that are folding to a push - it only matters where you stand against the hands that will call the push.

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Yea, that's pretty much what I meant by semibluff.

[bigt439]

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he needs better than 40% equity to have neutral chipEV. he has under 25%. i think this is enough of a chipEV edge for you that you're willing to gamble.

don't get me wrong though - you're not that excited about it.

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Checkraising is actually a line I hadn't considered here really, mostly because if UTG checks behind and the turn doesn't improve me, my equity drops considerably, especially if it pairs someone else.

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Yeah that's why you'd have to be sure he was a bettor. I mean betting with any two type. I mean this is not my standard line, just an option. And you have FE if he's doing it with high cards. Probably not against a pair or a draw. It's very read dependent, so you'd have to have on to do this. My typical line would be to push as you did probably.

[durron597]

They both folded, and I ended up winning the SnG.