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View Full Version : JJ with two overcards on the flop ($27)


11-10-2005, 08:45 AM
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.pushfold.com/converter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t4590)
UTG (t1500)
MP (t1535)
CO (t3420)
Hero (t1185)
SB (t1270)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t50, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls t150.

Flop: (t475) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t250</font>, UTG calls t250.

Turn: (t975) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t1050 (All-In)</font>

Hero?

Kristian
11-10-2005, 08:59 AM
Fold really fast?

11-10-2005, 09:10 AM
Fold even faster than that.

bennies
11-10-2005, 09:12 AM
fo

By the way, anyone not c-betting this flop?

HesseJam
11-10-2005, 09:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
fo

By the way, anyone not c-betting this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I also would like to know.

Also, if you c-bet the flop and it is checked to you on the turn, do you fire another barrel? I guess I wouldn't.

durron597
11-10-2005, 09:37 AM
Check behind on the flop and hope you hit your jack on the turn?

11-10-2005, 09:40 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

By the way, anyone not c-betting this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I also would like to know.

Also, if you c-bet the flop and it is checked to you on the turn, do you fire another barrel? I guess I wouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was trying to decide before he pushed. Does it make any difference that he'd seen me lose with AT vs KJ when KJ made his straight (and two pair for me) two hands before?

bawcerelli
11-10-2005, 09:42 AM
yeah you've got to c bet this flop. after he calls, you have to check through the turn UI. but since he bet, you fold.

11-10-2005, 11:48 AM
The limp-call, check-call, push just smelled really funny. Combined with the fact that I had to satisfy my curiosity and was going to be in relatively bad shape if I folded...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.pushfold.com/converter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t4590)
UTG (t1500)
MP (t1535)
CO (t3420)
Hero (t1185)
SB (t1270)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t50, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls t150.

Flop: (t475) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t250</font>, UTG calls t250.

Turn: (t975) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t1050 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t735 (All-In).

River: (t2760) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2760

Results below:
UTG has Q/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (one pair, aces).
Hero has J/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (two pair, aces and jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins t2445. UTG wins t315.

Melchiades
11-10-2005, 12:00 PM
It's still a fold though.

11-10-2005, 12:39 PM
I don't think it's a great call or anything, just thought provoking.

I've represented a real hand all along and he hasn't until the turn push. If he thinks I have an ace and he can beat it he should probably be letting me bet it again. If he doesn't think I have an ace, but he can still beat me (he's got to assume I've got at least a PP), he's got to know that open-pushing here is going to fold most people. Unless he specifically thinks I have AK and he has me beat (3s or 5s), I don't see how open-pushing the turn is a good idea for him to maximize his hand, and of the hands I could have here, AK would appear to be the least likely, given that he can see two of them and that I didn't try to slow-play that flop with them.

Am I going to see an ace, king, two pair, or set here a good bit of the time, probably, but it just didn't add up for me. I'm getting 2.3-1 on my call, so he's got to be bluffing around 30% of the time (maybe a little less since I almost always have two outs). Plus, I think my $EV ($/hr) might be better overall if I call (win or lose) than if I fold, since I'm either through or much more likely to make the money versus having to hang around in 6th for a while.

11-10-2005, 01:47 PM
Here is how I would think this hand through:

He called your bet or 4x the BB or slightly better then 2 to 1 pot odds. I would be putting him on two 10+ hole cards or possibly a medium pair or something like A9s... depending on his aggressive/conservative previous plays.

The flop presents a flush draw and/or gutshot straight draw, giving him 12 outs so I would look to raise more than slightly over half the size of the pot, as you bet here. If he has 12 outs he definitely calls your raise of 250. I'd think about raising 360 here. If he calls with a flush draw and/or straight draw then it's his mistake.

It just so happens that he was only on the straight draw and was not getting proper odds to call his 4 outs (from his perception) from the bet you made. He made a mistake there.

The 3 on the turn obviously did not help him make a possible flush or straight, so his all-in bet does not make sense, unless he had pocket 3s, in which case he should not have called your bet on the flop with three over cards on the board.

I am really suspicious with the all-in because if he has the A or K why give you another shot at card you could be looking for by calling your bet on the flop? I'd probably call him as well.