Negotiating a job offer

[ethan]

So, after quite some time as a grad student/p**** player, I'm finally getting a real job. I'm working in computer graphics/image processing as a software engineer, and I'm trying to figure out how to make sure I'm getting a fair deal in my first job. I just got my first offer.

The salary's slightly below what I could get elsewhere, but at this job I'd only be working 40-45 hours a week instead of the 60-70 that are common elsewhere. I will, however, be commuting about 50 miles each way, or just under 2 hours round-trip. Any other job I took would have a significantly shorter commute. I'm not willing to move closer to where I'd be working, because anywhere between LA and this company sucks.

One thing that surprised me in the initial offer is that they're not offering me medical/dental insurance until March 01, 2006. Is it normal for full-time employees not to get benefits for 90(ish) days? Or are they trying to screw me? Also, is it normal for full-time employees to receive compensation for commuting costs, or does that only happen for consulting work?

This company definitely wants me. I think I have some leverage in negotiating, and haven't used any of it yet. I'm just not sure what I should be trying to get from them.

[Clarkmeister]

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I'm just not sure what I should be trying to get from them.


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As much as you can get.

Being willing to walk away is key.

[IHateKeithSmart]

The benefits delay is normal for small companies or companies with lots of relatively low salaried employees.

As far as negotiating, depending on how important each is, you can talk:

-Flex time (setting the hours you work, or choosing to work 4 10 hour days instead of 5 8 hour days)
-Salary (obv)
-Benefits
-Stock options (if applicable)
-Performance reviews (negotiate a more aggressive schedule for getting promotions/raises)
-Telecommuting options

Congrats and good luck

[ethan]

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[ QUOTE ]
I'm just not sure what I should be trying to get from them.


[/ QUOTE ]

As much as you can get.

Being willing to walk away is key.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, the trick here is...I'm more than willing to act like I'm willing to walk away. And in truth, I _am_ willing to walk away. But I'm also tempted by having a sure thing in this job. I haven't done anything in my field in the last year or so - at least, nothing I could put on my resume. I've done some programming, and kept up with the state of the art in the particular branch of applied math I was doing at UCLA, but I've been paying my bills with the aforementioned p***r.

I think I can pull off a plausible job of acting like I don't need them despite the fact that they'd be pretty good for me. I interview well, and I'm fairly bright.

If this job doesn't work out, I have a number of friends in the industry who can recommend me for jobs at their respective companies. I'm just not sure how well I'm going to be able to explain away the fact that I haven't had a "real job" in awhile, and a year or so at this particular company would get my resume back on track. I wasn't sure how difficult it would be for me to get an offer, and this is the first company to which I've applied after my...hiatus. If I take this job, I think I'll be there for about a year and I'm then transferring to someplace that'll both pay me better and give me something more difficult to do.

[4_2_it]

Set up a meeting and tell them that you are interested in the position, but have a few questions/concerns before you can make an educated decision. Go over what you want (higher salary, earlier benefits, etc.) and be willing to negotiate.

Salary is probably the most negotiable item since it is easy to justify different salaries for each employee. It is much harder to get benefits earlier and the company may have a strict of never negotiating this. If so, you can ask for some extra $$$ for the 90 days you are without insurance. I got one employer to pay my COBRA until I get on their plan. The 4-day week is a good idea as is telecommuting.

Just be firm, not arrogant, when negotiating. Being willing to walk is good, but frankly if that comes up during the conversation you are in trouble.

[ethan]

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Performance reviews (negotiate a more aggressive schedule for getting promotions/raises)


[/ QUOTE ]

I think this may be a good route for me to take. Since I don't have much professional experience I may not have much luck negotiating starting salary. I'd like about 10K more than they're offering - I think I'm going to ask for a review at 6 months, and assuming they're happy with me to get that in the form of a raise.

And thanks for the advice, the raise schedule is something I hadn't really thought to bring up.

[IHateKeithSmart]

One other thing I forgot to mention, which would seem obvious.

Be careful with your approach. It was mentioned earlier to get all you can and be willing to walk away. This is true, but you have to keep in mind that you will be working for these folks. So, keep the negotiations friendly. You don't want a protracted battle with someone you're going to have to answer to for the forseeable future.

[jba]

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The benefits delay is normal for small companies or companies with lots of relatively low salaried employees.


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I have never ever heard of anything like this for a software engineer, and I would walk out the door pronto if I ever heard this as part of an offer. Not necessarily because the insurance money is all that important but if they are pulling this they are well below the market standard.

Where are you located by the way? my opinion could change if you are in a bad market.

[junkmail3]

Me: The only thing that concerns me about this job is the salary, it's a little lower than I expected.

Them: We calculate your salary based on a matrix considering all of your qualifications/experience/etc, blah blah blah.

Me: I'm trying to decide between this job and I job I was offered elsewhere. Elsewhere pays only slightly less but has a much lower cost of living. The scaled salary to this location would be much higher than your offer.

Them: We can rerun the matrix calculations if you'd like. Each offer takes into account your location and the cost of living.

Me: Okay, can you rerun the matrix?

Them: Sure. [pause] It's the same.

Me: Hm, well, I'm going to have to think about it. It's just lower than I was expecting.

Them: Okay.

Me: Bye.

[2 min later]

Them: Hello?

Me: I'll take the job.

[fnord_too]

What I have heard about medical plans is that the company sets up a waiting period for new hires on the policy. some have no waiting period, but 90 days is quite common. There can be no exceptions to the policy, it's binding. (This is what an agent told me a week or so ago, I cannot attest to its veracity).

10 hours a week in commute time is pretty damn heinous.