Three to a flush on the flop..now what? [Archive]

View Full Version : Three to a flush on the flop..now what?

ajm36

11-10-2005, 01:19 AM

I see situations similar to this every day. Good flop hand and three to a flush hits the flop. Do you bet or check/call? In this situation I'm behind two straights, pocket 7's and a made flush. Were my betting/raising decisions correct?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, CO folds, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, Button calls.

River: (13 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, Button folds.

11-10-2005, 01:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I see situations similar to this every day. Good flop hand and three to a flush hits the flop. Do you bet or check/call?

[/ QUOTE ]

For the love of God don't check call

11-10-2005, 01:43 AM

Flop:
Generally I like the idea of jamming the flop with any set, even on a scary board. Get the bets in now, anyone with one heart or straight draw will come along. and you could be behind now, but you have those full house outs. The raiser doesn't worry me (yet).

Turn & River: What line do you take if you get raised on the turn? Call, then check/call the river if you don't fill up?

Kumubou

11-10-2005, 01:44 AM

The board is drawy as all hell, but you have a solid made hand and a redraw against anyone who did indeed flop a straight or flush. People are either drawing to the bitter end or getting out of the way now, so jam while you are still best.

With that said, you played the hand fine. If you got capped I would bet/call the turn (unless the board pairs) and look to call down unless you end up four-flush and/or four-straight on the river without filling up. That is a fun situtation to deal with (not).

-K

11-10-2005, 01:48 AM

You can't assume a flush every time you see 3 suited cards. You have to bet and raise to protect your set from anyone who holds a single heart.

You played it fine. What would you do if a villain raised the river?

ajm36

11-10-2005, 02:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn & River: What line do you take if you get raised on the turn? Call, then check/call the river if you don't fill up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I had planned to call one bet if raised on the turn and check/call to the river.

Kumubou

11-10-2005, 02:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Turn & River: What line do you take if you get raised on the turn? Call, then check/call the river if you don't fill up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I had planned to call one bet if raised on the turn and check/call to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
You know you have 10 outs against a made hand not a bigger set, right?

Folding the turn would be very bad.

-K

11-10-2005, 02:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You can't assume a flush every time you see 3 suited cards. You have to bet and raise to protect your set from anyone who holds a single heart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't they still have odds to call as long as you get one other caller?

DMBFan23

11-10-2005, 02:54 AM

flush draws have odds to call because of what's in the pot, but a large percentage of the bets going in on the flop go to you since you will fill up so often and leave them drawing dead. also if they have to call getting 8:1 that is better than checking at infinity:1

Mods, is there a standard 'raising draws for value' thread that gets linked to? Man that [censored] blew my mind. made me a winning micro player.

MrWookie47

11-10-2005, 02:56 AM

Blew my mind too. I'd be willing to accept nominations for what will be an oft-cited classic. However, I don't have a link at my finger tips.

ajm36

11-10-2005, 03:09 AM

I wasn't planning on folding the turn--just wasn't sure about betting out. I know I shouldn't give a free card to the draws, but I could already be beat.

11-10-2005, 03:11 AM

what i meant was, they have the equity to call any raises as long as there is one caller, since they will put in 33% but have their draw come in 35% of the time.

ajm36

11-10-2005, 03:11 AM

What if I'm already beat? And what do I do against a raise here--re-raise or call.

11-10-2005, 03:49 AM

*grunch*

You have a nice set there. Although you are up against 5 opponents, there is a good chance that you are actually ahead now. If you are behind you have still 7 Outs to improve on the Turn and 10 outs to improve an the River.
The pot is fairly big with six players in it, so you definitly do not want to play it passively and risk giving a lone /images/graemlins/heart.gif a free or cheap card to draw out. So betting the flop was correct and BB helped you to protect your hand. Nevertheless, you have 2 cold callers.
BB could have checked into the hand with anything, so he might be raising a draw or trying to protect a pair or a 2 pair. You haven't provided reads for the guy, so it's hard to tell if he would play a draw aggressivly against a large field or even try bluffing people out with overcards.
Without reads it is difficult to narrow down UTG and BU in this unraised pot. When they are overplayers or happy chasers, they are likely to be on a draw.
Betting out the Turn when a blank comes is all-right then. You won't fold anybody, but you won't get a say T high flush to raise, either. So I think they could be still drawing, making your bet a value-bet.
Therefore I would bet the river and fold if it's a raise in front of me (especially if you were an overcaller). Against 3 opponents on the river with any 6 beating you, the three-flush and the cold-callers still in I wouldn't think it's a value-bet unless you know if your opponents play very poorly. Many poor players would stay in the pot with one flush-card (or even one pair), figuring another bet wouldn't count much. So against unknowns I would fold to a raise on the river. I would hate to miss bets by busted one-card-draws but wouldn't want to invest more than one BB on this board.

LoaferGee12

11-10-2005, 03:51 AM

Standard. If raised on the turn, then you can go to call-down.