(22) Just making sure this is correct

[golfcchs]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

CO (t755)
Button (t745)
SB (t780)
BB (t975)
UTG (t755)
UTG+1 (t980)
MP1 (t760)
MP2 (t1475)
Hero (t775)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls t85, BB calls t70.

Flop: (t300) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero Push

Just wanted to be sure this is a standard play (have started revaluate my game because of some variance). Is 2 overs and the nut flush draw enough to push?

[TylerD]

More than enough given your stack size/pot/folding equity. Standard.

It is sensabel to put your chips in before the flop because you have best hand. This is how I play.

[durron597]

I play it the same.

Would this play the same on a board with 2 high cards? Say it was J /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif where there's a higher chance that another player picked up a pair, two pair, or a straight draw. Is this still an instapush?

[DDH]

[ QUOTE ]
Would this play the same on a board with 2 high cards? Say it was J /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif where there's a higher chance that another player picked up a pair, two pair, or a straight draw. Is this still an instapush?

[/ QUOTE ]

That flop actually gives you more outs as well. Now plus your over cards and flush draw, you've picked up a straight draw, four more outs. All the more reason to get your money in.

[mhcmarty]

I'd make a pot sized continuation bet. You can find out if your behind for less then your entire stack. At this level, players in the blinds love to check raise. You might get a call from a flush draw.

[DDH]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd make a pot sized continuation bet. You can find out if your behind for less then your entire stack. At this level, players in the blinds love to check raise. You might get a call from a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

300 in the pot, you only have 675 left, I don't like just betting half my stack and hoping for a fold, because that leaves me only 375 to bet into an pot of at least 900 chips if I get called. I'd just put it all in there.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd make a pot sized continuation bet. You can find out if your behind for less then your entire stack. At this level, players in the blinds love to check raise. You might get a call from a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a mistake IMO. Finding out that you are behind (presumably because villain reraises?) has no value because the pot will be so large relative to your remaining stack that the correct move will be to call the raise anyway. I agree that you may extract some extra value from a lower flush draw, how often are they going to call a preflop raise with two diamonds lower than the A and K?

So when you make this push, are you actually hoping for a call because you have a strong draw? On the original flop, with the PF raise and a strong push, you're pretty likely to just get a fold. But on a more coordinated/higher board, you're more likely to run into someone who is willing to call with TPGK and a draw or something like that.

I guess if you look at the FE of the push, plus the outs you have to make the hand if someone does call the push, its the right play. I'm still working on tightening up that part of my game. I think if I'm hero here, my typical play would be to cbet out about t250 into the t300 pot, leaving myself 10+BB if one of the blinds check-raised. Though I guess considering I'd almost have to call that check-raise anyway, I probably should have just pushed all-in in the first place, huh?

Maybe that's a leak in my game.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
So when you make this push, are you actually hoping for a call because you have a strong draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you're hoping for a fold, because you are a slight favorite at best. But if you are called, you have plenty of outs, obviously.

[SonnyJay]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd make a pot sized continuation bet. You can find out if your behind for less then your entire stack. At this level, players in the blinds love to check raise. You might get a call from a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you bet 300 with 375 left behind, it would be a gigantic mistake to fold if you were check raised. You want everyone to fold here but you're looking at 9 outs to the nuts and potentially more outs against 1 pair. Likewise, if you get called you can't fold the turn, so why not get it all in here and maximize your chance of getting a fold?

Ok. But you still want to push rather than a pot or similar sized c-bet, because if you were check-raised on that c-bet, you'd have to call the all-in anyway. Makes sense.

If you did cbet this and it was called and then checked to you on the turn, this would probably be a situation where you'd push all-in on the turn no matter what the turn card was, right?

[tigerite]

You think anyone who had called would fold the turn for 300 with 1500 or whatever in the pot?

You want to maximize FE here. You push.

Ok. Thanks. Seems like you guys might have helped me plug a leak in my game too. Seems I need to think more about when to cbet vs. when to push when relatively short-stacked.