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View Full Version : [Qd Td] on [Ts 3d Kd] against a PFR button


11-09-2005, 10:05 PM
Read on preflop raiser is that his raises are sensable.

1.) Is my preflop call correct with backdoor flush and backdoor gutshot (is this correct terminology?) and two pair draws? Should I have reraised the flop? perhaps he has 88, 99, AJ, Axs.

2.) If flop call is correct, should i try to check raise the turn? If i bet out and he holds a hand like one of the hands above he might fold, but if i check he might continue his bluff for another bet.


1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB folds, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>


Hero?

McGahee
11-09-2005, 10:29 PM
As a default, most people at this level don't fold to C/R's often enough or raise turn donk bets nearly enough, so a C/R is the best way to extract here IMO.
edit: I think the flop is ok, but I also think that I peel too much.

11-09-2005, 10:38 PM
You are referring to your flop call, not pre-flop, yes? With this pot, yah, you can peel.

Check-raise the turn, so you can trap the other players between you and button. Hope that nobody has J9. Call a 3-bet and consider check/calling the river UI.

numeri
11-09-2005, 10:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
1.) Is my preflop call correct with backdoor flush and backdoor gutshot (is this correct terminology?) and two pair draws? Should I have reraised the flop? perhaps he has 88, 99, AJ, Axs.

[/ QUOTE ]
The term backdoor is applicable on the flop, not preflop. On the flop, you have a backdoor flush draw (1.5), a weak backdoor straight draw(maybe 0.5), two pair (2.5 - discounted), and trip outs (2). Plenty of outs to continue, but not enough to raise.

[ QUOTE ]
2.) If flop call is correct, should i try to check raise the turn? If i bet out and he holds a hand like one of the hands above he might fold, but if i check he might continue his bluff for another bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
As has been mentioned, a C/R is the best way to get value. You'll rarely get the chance to bet/3-bet at this level, so a C/R is best.

DeuceHigh80
11-09-2005, 10:45 PM
I think you mean on the flop you have a back door flush and straight draw?

pre-flop you just have a suited broadway one-gap connector. I would not open-limp this hand unless I was at a very loose table and could expect several additional limpers and no raise. I would limp in middle to late position after other limpers were in. You need to be in a multi-way pot with this hand.

On the flop, you need to protect your hand and calling is probably the worst option. Yes you have two weak draws but you also have middle pair. Check raise the button here and hope to knock out MP2 -- the fact that SB folded to just one bet is even better. Now you can likely get heads up with button and may have the best hand.

I think you need to lead the turn too, he's likely at least calling -- if he raises then you get to 3-bet and he'll probably call. If you do check the turn you leave yourself open to the worst possible option -- button takes the free card and misses his draw and folds the river.

11-09-2005, 10:45 PM
oops yes that should read "flop" not preflop call in question 1.

11-10-2005, 08:47 AM
@grunch@

Absolutely call the PFR...if you're playing good hands, always call the PFR if it is one bet back to you. You suspect the raiser is sensible with his raises, so reraising is definitely not good. Yes, he may have 99, JJ, etc, but he could also have AA, KK, QQ, etc. You face a strong possibility of being up against a better hand.

Check-raise the turn and call a re-raise. If you are reraised or the river is straight making card check/call the river otherwise bet out on the river.

11-10-2005, 09:06 AM
1. sure it is, I would not reraised the flop. Why would you do that?
2. I would not do the check raise here.