Biodiesel, ethanol, and the American military

[11t]

So if anybody here is unaware you can make diesel fuel out of soy beans or hemp seeds and many institutions are working on a jet fuel based on ethanol (which can be obtained from corn). Biodiesel burns cleaner and lubricates better than diesel fuel and will work in any diesel engine. With how expensive gas is and with a long term military engagement ahead of us and a looming fuel shortage why isn't the government investing in renewable fuel sources?

Think about it, it would re-energize the farming industry in America, lower gas prices, and ensure a constant supply of fuel. I refuse to believe with all of these benefits that, "big oil" is keeping the government from investing in this. It seems to be in the USA's national interest.

Is this a case of government incompetence and short sightedness?

[The once and future king]

If there is profit in it, why is the market not supplying the obvious demand for it??????????

[11t]

Firstly, I think the creation and funding of processing plants is probably quite expensive and would require government help (tax $$$).

Secondly, irregardless of profit self-reliance in a military capacity is in the USA's best interest.

[BCPVP]

The problem with ethanol (as far as I know) is that it takes more energy to produce than is made when it's used. And when blended with regular gas, it actually makes a dirtier fuel because most engines aren't designed to handle a watered down gas. I could be wrong on this though.

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with ethanol (as far as I know) is that it takes more energy to produce than is made when it's used. And when blended with regular gas, it actually makes a dirtier fuel because most engines aren't designed to handle a watered down gas. I could be wrong on this though.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm not sure the energy usage to results problems are being solved yet, but the problem they had with engines has changed considerably - for the better. Newer engines aren't having the old problems.

I think you'll find in Kansas, where they are, naturally, very interested in the technology, it's readily available. And sometimes slightly cheaper. That may be a state subsidy program, I don't know. It's not easy to find in a lot of states. For whatever reason.

[ QUOTE ]
Firstly, I think the creation and funding of processing plants is probably quite expensive and would require government help (tax $$$).

[/ QUOTE ]

You say in your OP that there's a "looming energy crisis." If that is the case, then companies stand to make many billions from alternative fuels. So why does the govt have to do all the R&D and build the infrastructure for them?


[ QUOTE ]
Secondly, irregardless of profit self-reliance in a military capacity is in the USA's best interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm quite sure the military is not at the mercy of a foreign oil baron as you are painting it.

[Il_Mostro]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with ethanol (as far as I know) is that it takes more energy to produce than is made when it's used.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is probably the case with corn-based ethanol production. There are other crops to use where the energy balance is positive, though. These things are very hard to measure with any precision.

[Il_Mostro]

Think scale. You people use a stunning amount of oil every day. You simply cannot replace that by a crop-based fuel. Especially not if you mean to continue the exponential growth you and we and all of us take for granted. Soon enough you will have to chose between growing fuel and making food.

This is not to say you can't make money in this, and not to say it's useless. But it is not a recepie for a simple switch and then business-as-usual. It would surprise me if there isn't companies working on it, there are over here, for sure.

[Jdanz]

because it could take a really long time to show profit and the technology will likely be very difficult to keep a hold of, and actually benifit from being the one to refine it

[New001]

For what it's worth, I've seen ads here (Central Illinois) for using ethanol from farmers out here.

[SheetWise]

[ QUOTE ]
Think about it, it would re-energize the farming industry in America, lower gas prices, and ensure a constant supply of fuel.

[/ QUOTE ]
Apparently none of you are old enough to remember Jimmy Carter and his ethanol program. It was an absolute disaster. The price might make it more viable today -- but we're not there yet. It works on a local level (making it for your own use) because you don't have to meet all of the regulatory requirements that would apply if you intended to do it commercially.

I have seen a lot of focus on corn and ethanol as a possible sole source/solution. Ethanol, methane, propane, natural gas, fuel cells, etc., etc., are each a <u>part</u> of the solution. I think we need to remember the definition of synergism.

I keep hearing pols screaming about an "Energy Policy." It's been going on for 30 years. JFK said let's go to the moon. We did. It didn't take 30 years.

Unless you're living in a cave somewhere, you know we have a problem. The answer is for all of us to change our habits. If you're not doing something to conserve gasoline, natural gas, heating oil, or whatever, you're ignoring the problem and adding to it.

There are dozens of actions each and every one of us can take. None of which requires a degree. They've all become cliched - because not enough people actually do them. You can't wait on the politicians. They simply aren't motivated.

[hmkpoker]

Cost to produce is the most important factor here (I think)

Could you provide a link to some info about this development? I'd be interested.