USA Today article on the Bunning/McCain Steroid Bill

[Jack of Arcades]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2005-11-08-steroids-bill_x.htm

The legislation covers professional baseball, basketball, football and hockey, but baseball has been the primary focus of congressional pressure. Fueling the outrage: Baltimore Oriole star Rafael Palmeiro’s 10-day suspension in August for steroid use after he told Congress under oath he never used steroids.

Three strikes and you’re out

Proposal covers MLB, NHL, NBA and NFL:

First offense: Suspension for half the season.
Second offense: Suspension for one season.
Third offense: Lifetime ban from all pro sports.

This is absolutely disgusting. [censored] congress.

[Voltron87]

What's disgusting about the part you quoted?

This is the really [censored] up and unbelievable bit:

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The legislation would not become effective until one year after being signed by the president.

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[TheRover]

I'd give a [censored] if the MLB players union gave a [censored] and actually wanted to do something serious about it instead of feet-dragging and paying worthless lip service.

Until then [censored] the players and [censored] Don Fehr. They could've had it easier.

[Jack of Arcades]

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What's disgusting about the part you quoted?

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The fact that congress is stripping away rights from a select group of citizens for no good reason whatsoever.

[Voltron87]

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no good reason whatsoever.

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This I really disagree with.

[Jack of Arcades]

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no good reason whatsoever.

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This I really disagree with.

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Umm... what?

Okay, how would you feel if the government mandated everyone to be randomly drug tested throughout the year?

There's no logical nor legal reason why pro sports are any different.

[tech]

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There's no logical nor legal reason why pro sports are any different.

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Surely you don't really believe this. Is everyone on TV everyday? Does everyone have millions of kids wanting to be like them?

[Matt Williams]

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no good reason whatsoever.

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This I really disagree with.

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Umm... what?

Okay, how would you feel if the government mandated everyone to be randomly drug tested throughout the year?

There's no logical nor legal reason why pro sports are any different.

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Cry me a river. There are a lot of jobs that make you take drug tests, not just in professional sports. No one is holding a gun to an athlete's head. It's not like Raffy-Roid was forced to be a MLB player and then got caught using steroids. If you can't be a pro w/o drugs, than get a real job like everyone else.

[Jack of Arcades]

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There are a lot of jobs that make you take drug tests, not just in professional sports.

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None of them are federally mandated drug tests.

[Jack of Arcades]

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There's no logical nor legal reason why pro sports are any different.

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Surely you don't really believe this. Is everyone on TV everyday? Does everyone have millions of kids wanting to be like them?

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I'll expect the federally mandated random drug testing of Hollywood actors to start any second now.

[Clarkmeister]

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There are a lot of jobs that make you take drug tests,

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Exactomundo! And many of them are even mandated by the government, both at the state and federal levels. One obvious example is the Department of Transportation regulations.

http://www.dot.gov/ost/dapc/

[Jack of Arcades]

The USDOT is a public safety issue, NOT an issue of capturing criminals. I don't see how random drug testing in pro sports will help ensure public safety.

There are measures in place to investigate and capture drug users. Random drug tests are unconstitutional.

[Voltron87]

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The USDOT is a public safety issue, NOT an issue of capturing criminals. I don't see how random drug testing in pro sports will help ensure public safety.

There are measures in place to investigate and capture drug users. Random drug tests are unconstitutional.

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superstar baseball players take steroids ---> teenage kids see that, want to take steroids ---> steroids hurt teenage kids

[Clarkmeister]

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The USDOT is a public safety issue, NOT an issue of capturing criminals. I don't see how random drug testing in pro sports will help ensure public safety.

There are measures in place to investigate and capture drug users. Random drug tests are unconstitutional.

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superstar baseball players take steroids ---> teenage kids see that, want to take steroids ---> steroids hurt teenage kids

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Neither unconstitutional nor unprecedented (http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/page1/98/10/05/court05.html)

[Jack of Arcades]

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The USDOT is a public safety issue, NOT an issue of capturing criminals. I don't see how random drug testing in pro sports will help ensure public safety.

There are measures in place to investigate and capture drug users. Random drug tests are unconstitutional.

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superstar baseball players take steroids ---> teenage kids see that, want to take steroids ---> steroids hurt teenage kids

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please, won't somebody think of the children!?

like I said, I'll expect random drug testing of everybody that appears on television. or hell, how about everyone, since kids can see it everywhere.

these teenage kids are getting supplied by parents and coaches.

[Voltron87]

both your examples arent really all that relevant

[Jack of Arcades]

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The USDOT is a public safety issue, NOT an issue of capturing criminals. I don't see how random drug testing in pro sports will help ensure public safety.

There are measures in place to investigate and capture drug users. Random drug tests are unconstitutional.

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superstar baseball players take steroids ---> teenage kids see that, want to take steroids ---> steroids hurt teenage kids

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Neither unconstitutional nor unprecedented (http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/page1/98/10/05/court05.html)

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It's been long ruled that schoolchildren have just about zero rights.

[Voltron87]

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these teenage kids are getting supplied by parents and coaches.

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tons of kids go out and do this on their own.

[Clarkmeister]

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both your examples arent really all that relevant

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I could come up with dozens of others. Is there a point? It's legal, constitutional, and quite frankly, the correct policy. No one complains about the USOC, NFL or NCAA testing for drugs, what's the big deal about baseball? Who mandates the testing is irrelevant.

[Jack of Arcades]

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these teenage kids are getting supplied by parents and coaches.

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tons of kids go out and do this on their own.

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then someone should let them know what they're getting probably doesn't work, considering they're working on a teenage budget and doing this secretly.

you know, maybe everything a teenager knows about steroids shouldn't come from watching rafael palmeiro.

[Jack of Arcades]

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It's legal, constitutional, and quite frankly, the correct policy. No one complains about the USOC, NFL or NCAA testing for drugs, what's the big deal about baseball? Who mandates the testing is irrelevant.

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Actually, somebody does complain about the NFL testing for drugs, because they're being targeted by this steroid bill, too.

MLB tests for drugs, as well, but it's apparently not good enough.

Yes, who mandates it is a big deal. If you decided not to read a certain book, that's your perogative. If the government mandates that you can't read a book, that's a big difference.

[Voltron87]

wow, youre way off here. you have brought up so many things that are irrelevant.

The NCAA and NFL testing are the leagues voting to test their players. This is Congress mandating MLB to do it. Totally different things. I think you realize how the DOT and school drug testing don't relate.

Jack, aside from it just being a good idea and promoting a better national attitude, Congress could do change baseballs anti trust status, that is where they get their leverage.

[Jack of Arcades]

Guys, once again

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Proposal covers MLB, NHL, NBA and NFL

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[Voltron87]

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Guys, once again

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Proposal covers MLB, NHL, NBA and NFL

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ok, so the anti trust thing doesnt apply across the board. still the argument is the basic one about kids seeing their role models on steroids. this is not hard to understand. if pro sports are full of juicing players in an environment that encourages and allows steroid use, it will lead to more steroid use among kids. simple.

also, youre way off about high school steroid use

[Clarkmeister]

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The NCAA and NFL testing are the leagues voting to test their players. This is Congress mandating MLB to do it. Totally different things.

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Not really. All I care about is whether or not it's legal. Since it is, they have no beef. If they don't like it, they can play in Japan.

[Voltron87]

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The NCAA and NFL testing are the leagues voting to test their players. This is Congress mandating MLB to do it. Totally different things.

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Not really.

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Yes, really. Just because the answer is "it's constitutional for congress to do this" doesn't mean you can bring up stuff ranging from somewhat to totally irrelevant to justify it and also draw comparisions to two things which are just not the same.

[Clarkmeister]

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The NCAA and NFL testing are the leagues voting to test their players. This is Congress mandating MLB to do it. Totally different things.

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Not really.

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Yes, really. Just because the answer is "it's constitutional for congress to do this" doesn't mean you can bring up stuff ranging from somewhat to totally irrelevant to justify it and also draw comparisions to two things which are just not the same.

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I could grab many more examples - and you know it. It's simply not worth the time so I grabbed literally the first search result each time. The fact is that it's not only appropriate, legal and constitutional for the government to mandate this, it's the players own fault that it's happening due to their blind support of the union. I love it.

[Jack of Arcades]

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this is not hard to understand. if pro sports are full of juicing players in an environment that encourages and allows steroid use, it will lead to more steroid use among kids. simple.

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Instituting harsh punishments will not have the desired results. Many of the players caught in the past year were players that might not have even had a career in baseball if not for steroids. What the hell would it matter to them if they were caught juicing and kicked out of the sport?

We don't even fully know the effects of many drugs such as steroids because of the "drugs are bad, mmmkay?" mentality the governement and schools take with regards to education. I think we all remember the DARE program.

As for teenagers doing this on their own, I can't imagine most teenagers who self-acquire the drugs getting something much better than some of the lowest quality stuff out there. If a kid doesn't know the difference between what Barry Bonds is taking and what he's taking, of course that's a recipe for disaster. But that has just as much to do with Barry Bonds than the piss-poor education system.

[J.R.]

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Instituting harsh punishments will not have the desired results. Many of the players caught in the past year were players that might not have even had a career in baseball if not for steroids. What the hell would it matter to them if they were caught juicing and kicked out of the sport?

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this bill is not about the players. but even then, you really think increasing the current MLB penalty provisions to those proposed by Congress would not significantly promote deterence. This is an enourmous economic penalty. Sure maybe not so much for guys on the tail end of their careers, especially those with a history of use, but I have little doubt this will be effective. Minor league abuse is down (at least we hear so), and they have a real policy.

This is about baseball being scared about the marketing and attendance consequences of cleaning up the game at the MLB level and risking a hit to the games perceived star power and excitement. Ineffecient, unfair, meddlesome, draconian, or even a waste of time give the more pressing issues congress has- sure, but its not without some degree of efficacy. Is it a knee jerk political reaction, a slam dunk for your public profile if you're mccain or bunning or feingold (sp?)? yes. but our government is not without lots of examples of shamelesly ill conceived self-promoting legislation, and thes efolks hands were tied when fehr called their bluff/blew them off. This was so easily avoided, baseball's management on both sides blew a 3-0 fastball right down the pipe.

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We don't even fully know the effects of many drugs such as steroids because of the "drugs are bad, mmmkay?" mentality the governement and schools take with regards to education. I think we all remember the DARE program.

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whatever. this isn't a pot is bad because its a gateway drug to harder recreational substances even though its health risks ands benefits are contested. PEDS were developed as medicines and it is the medical community which has recognized the dangers of unsupervised PED use and abuse. Does science precisely understand HGH, testosterone and even steroid precurses like andro's full long term effect? No, but does that change the fact that there are real and indispited negative health consequences associated with the bulk of the PEDs at issue in this debate.

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As for teenagers doing this on their own, I can't imagine most teenagers who self-acquire the drugs getting something much better than some of the lowest quality stuff out there.

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Neither did clowns like giambi and raffy (deca and winstrol). But its not a quality issue such that high quality PEDS are far medically safer than cheap low, grade knockoffs. Peds are peds and are pretty much universally dangerous substances to use, even under medical care and supervision.

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If a kid doesn't know the difference between what Barry Bonds is taking and what he's taking, of course that's a recipe for disaster.

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Huh? Taking most any PED is a recipe for disaster, what a kid knows or doesn't know about THG has nothing to do with the physiological effects of whatever other PED he is taking.

[J.R.]

fyi

A bill calling for a half-season ban for a first steroid offense, a full-season ban for a second offense, and a lifetime ban for a third reached the floor of the Senate. But a spokesman for one of the bill's sponsors, Sen. Jim Bunning, R-Ky., said Wednesday that an unidentified senator placed a hold on the bill, meaning it's stalled indefinitely.

link (http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=AuhLYiasu9ap3q7BSl1OyUERvLYF?slug=ap-congress-palmeiro&prov=ap&type=lgns)