How the heck do you play this, flopped QUAD 2's [Archive]

View Full Version : How the heck do you play this, flopped QUAD 2's

11-09-2005, 04:24 PM

I'm pretty disappointed by this hand, I think I could have made a lot more money off of it, but I dont know where??

This was like my 3rd hand at the table so no big reads yet.

Give me a little tutorial on each street if you could please, thanks!

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
2 folds, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB

numeri

11-09-2005, 04:28 PM

Check out the other thread that's EXACTLY LIKE THIS ONE.

Real advice: Raise the turn. And don't worry about quads. They don't have often. Trust me, you have much bigger problems that occur much more often.

Aaron W.

11-09-2005, 04:28 PM

<sigh> (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3899433&an=&page=0&vc=1)

[ QUOTE ]
By playing slowly, you certainly will not extract extra money from flush draws if they don't come in on the river... they are likely going to give you the same action when they make their hand regardless of the turn action (barring a raising war, in which case you still win because of all the money you make on the turn).

There seems to be no legitimate reason to let everyone off cheaply on the turn. This is a general rule about slowplaying in limit hold'em. Slowplaying on the flop can be okay, but it's hardly ever correct to slowplay on the turn. You lose too much from drawing hands because those hands miss most of the time, and you don't stand to get that much more action on the river as a result of slowplaying on the turn. Since the bet sizes are identical on both streets, there's nothing to gain.

[/ QUOTE ]

pryor15

11-09-2005, 04:29 PM

raise the turn, hoping he's either got 2 diamonds, JJ, or AK/AQ, etc.

there's not a ton to do here but hope to get in a war.

11-09-2005, 04:54 PM

Just one thing I'd change: the part where you don't place a large rock on the Raise button on the flop, and don't remove it until the hand is over.

On the flop you would get at least called by a jack.

On the turn you would get at least called by an ace and a jack.

On the river you would get 3-bet by the diamond flush and called by the ace. The jack might fold.

This is party .5/1. Enjoy the chasers while you can.

NEVER regret winning a hand. If your opponents have nothing, there's nothing you can do. If they have something, get the money before they figure out they have nothing.

11-09-2005, 05:19 PM

Point repeatedly driven home by players who know far more than I: opportunities for slowplaying at the lowest levels are rare, even more rare than the times you should cold-call a preflop raise. This wasn't one of them.

That being said, last night I raised preflop from EP with AKo (at the penny tables on Stars). Everybody folded to the button who called. The blinds called. The flop came A A 6 rainbow. I bet and (perhaps needless to say) the other three folded.

I think that was one of the rare cases where slowplaying would have been correct even at penny tables. The pot was pretty small despite the preflop raise. If I had allowed the flop to be checked around, somebody might have doubted my ace when I bet the turn. Straights and flushes were exceedingly unlikely because of the flop texture.

Oh well.

11-09-2005, 05:26 PM

fold pre-flop. the rest plays out clearer.

Buckmulligan

11-09-2005, 05:28 PM

stop giving free cards in big fields. It's too hard to make up your flop equity on the turn.

milesdyson

11-09-2005, 05:30 PM

anyone who says fold preflop - no, you're wrong.

anyone who says stop posting hands where you flopped quads - yes, you're right.

Buckmulligan

11-09-2005, 05:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]

anyone who says fold preflop - no, you're wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, folding preflop is just terrible. This is a dream situation for a pocket pair - you see a flop with a large pot but pay less to see it.

11-09-2005, 05:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
anyone who says fold preflop - no, you're wrong.

anyone who says stop posting hands where you flopped quads - yes, you're right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I missed Hero's posted blind. I thought he was calling 2 bets cold. I change my answer: Yeah, easy call.

11-09-2005, 05:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
opportunities for slowplaying at the lowest levels are rare, even more rare than the times you should cold-call a preflop raise. This wasn't one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definetly cold call more than I slow play (why ever slowplay?). What is so horrible about the call on the flop?
[ QUOTE ]

That being said, last night I raised preflop from EP with AKo (at the penny tables on Stars). Everybody folded to the button who called. The blinds called. The flop came A A 6 rainbow. I bet and (perhaps needless to say) the other three folded.

[/ QUOTE ]
You raised preflop and you are not going to bet this flop, what are you a bitch?

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I think that was one of the rare cases where slowplaying would have been correct even at penny tables.

[/ QUOTE ]
I completely disagree for every reason not having to do with this hand.

milesdyson

11-09-2005, 05:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That being said, last night I raised preflop from EP with AKo (at the penny tables on Stars). Everybody folded to the button who called. The blinds called. The flop came A A 6 rainbow. I bet and (perhaps needless to say) the other three folded.

[/ QUOTE ]
You raised preflop and you are not going to bet this flop, what are you a bitch?

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL

11-09-2005, 05:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
anyone who says fold preflop - no, you're wrong.

anyone who says stop posting hands where you flopped quads - yes, you're right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what I say, I was in the blind with a pocket pair and two others were already in with me, so why would I fold, even though it is pocket 2's.

The second part of your post, why would I not post this hand? I screwed up on playing it and wanted to see how to play quads well and usually get good answers on these forums. Thanks for your well informed post on the strategy on how to play these though.

To everyone else who replied with an actual answer, thank you tremendously, I know quads are boring, but I felt it was something I needed to work on because I could have made a lot more money...

Str8Fish

11-09-2005, 05:41 PM

Ed Miller said in SSHE on page 129 that playing monster hands is one of the most overrated aspects of playing poker. How can you play it wrong?! You should be focusing more on other aspects of your game instead of this.

11-09-2005, 06:07 PM

Raise the turn for sure. The bets are bigger now. You have two callers ahead of you. The ace likely helped one of them and you may get 3-bet.

Everything else played normally. But I'd say you missed out on at least 2 big bets on this turn. Of course you may have lost them on the river but still, RAISE THIS TURN.

11-09-2005, 06:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
don't worry about quads. They don't have often. Trust me, you have much bigger problems that occur much more often.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this statement. Too many people say "Don't worry about misplaying monsters because they are rare."

You can't think like that. Sure, the HAND ITSELF is rare, but once you have that hand, the ability to earn several bets is not rare.

We all need to understand when it's appropriate to slowplay and how to EXTRACT best against multiple opponents with the nuts.

Considering a good BB/100 rate is a mere 3, it goes without saying that picking up extra bets with huge hands can greatly help your winrate.

numeri

11-09-2005, 06:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
To everyone else who replied with an actual answer, thank you tremendously, I know quads are boring, but I felt it was something I needed to work on because I could have made a lot more money...

[/ QUOTE ]
How much did you lose? How often do you flop quads?

Counter that with something like cold-calling with Axs. How many chances do you get to do that? How much do you lose?

Misplaying quads will not cause your winrate to plummet. You have other larger problems. (I don't know what they are, but if you didn't you wouldn't be here. We all have problems we're working on.)

11-09-2005, 06:15 PM

11-09-2005, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
don't worry about quads. They don't have often. Trust me, you have much bigger problems that occur much more often.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this statement. Too many people say "Don't worry about misplaying monsters because they are rare."

You can't think like that. Sure, the HAND ITSELF is rare, but once you have that hand, the ability to earn several bets is not rare.

We all need to understand when it's appropriate to slowplay and how to EXTRACT best against multiple opponents with the nuts.

Considering a good BB/100 rate is a mere 3, it goes without saying that picking up extra bets with huge hands can greatly help your winrate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this too. The principle involved in this hand (raising the turn) would apply if hero had a hand like A2, JJ, AJ, or AK. We need to be thinking about how to play well in all situations, and the fact that it is quads, and not some other strong hand, does not mean we should not try to play these situations well.

11-09-2005, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To everyone else who replied with an actual answer, thank you tremendously, I know quads are boring, but I felt it was something I needed to work on because I could have made a lot more money...

[/ QUOTE ]
How much did you lose? How often do you flop quads?

Counter that with something like cold-calling with Axs. How many chances do you get to do that? How much do you lose?

Misplaying quads will not cause your winrate to plummet. You have other larger problems. (I don't know what they are, but if you didn't you wouldn't be here. We all have problems we're working on.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the whole "we could fold quads every time and it wouldn't affect our winrate very much" thing, while true, kind of misses the point here. The decision to not raise the turn here is a common mistake that a lot people make. And not raising the turn here with any type of hand that we think is best be it top pair or quads, is a sizable mistake that is serioulsy going to affect your winrate.

numeri

11-09-2005, 06:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The decision to not raise the turn here is a common mistake that a lot people make. And not raising the turn here with any type of hand that we think is best be it top pair or quads, is a sizable mistake that is serioulsy going to affect your winrate.

[/ QUOTE ]
True.

In my own defense, I did say to raise the turn in my original post.

11-09-2005, 06:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
don't worry about quads. They don't have often. Trust me, you have much bigger problems that occur much more often.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with this statement. Too many people say "Don't worry about misplaying monsters because they are rare."

[/ QUOTE ]

We can't sit around and wait to make money on monsters. We need to focus on the bread&butter with speculative hands and marginal hands.

Check out Ed's biggest leak post. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=862129& fpart=&PHPSESSID=)

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are implying that it's silly to try to extract the most from the hands in which you have the nuts?

FYI, we all concentrate on the "bread and butter" hands, too.

MrWookie47

11-09-2005, 06:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the whole "we could fold quads every time and it wouldn't affect our winrate very much" thing, while true, kind of misses the point here. The decision to not raise the turn here is a common mistake that a lot people make. And not raising the turn here with any type of hand that we think is best be it top pair or quads, is a sizable mistake that is serioulsy going to affect your winrate.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true, but rather than sweating over how to play quads to get every last bit of EV, you're better of just leaning on the bet/raise button and not letting up, and then focusing your study to marginal, common situations. Betting and raising at every opportunity is often correct, and if it's not, it's darn close. Next hand.

SoftcoreRevolt

11-09-2005, 06:57 PM

Petition to make posting Flopped Quad hands where any button other than the Bet/Raise button is used post flop a bannable offense.

In the Micro Forum at least.

11-09-2005, 07:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
don't worry about quads. They don't have often. Trust me, you have much bigger problems that occur much more often.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with this statement. Too many people say "Don't worry about misplaying monsters because they are rare."

[/ QUOTE ]

We can't sit around and wait to make money on monsters. We need to focus on the bread&butter with speculative hands and marginal hands.

Check out Ed's biggest leak post. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=862129& fpart=&PHPSESSID=)

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are implying that it's silly to try to extract the most from the hands in which you have the nuts?

FYI, we all concentrate on the "bread and butter" hands, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. But you missed my point. The point is, these come so infrequently, that you should not bother worrying about what the best line is. So you extract ONE friggin extra big bet because you played it one way vs another. That's fantastic. However, this is the same ONE big bet you would have saved had you folded your TPTK to a river raise in another hand. And you see the latter situation more often. Geez.

11-09-2005, 09:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
don't worry about quads. They don't have often. Trust me, you have much bigger problems that occur much more often.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with this statement. Too many people say "Don't worry about misplaying monsters because they are rare."

[/ QUOTE ]

We can't sit around and wait to make money on monsters. We need to focus on the bread&butter with speculative hands and marginal hands.

Check out Ed's biggest leak post. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=862129& fpart=&PHPSESSID=)

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are implying that it's silly to try to extract the most from the hands in which you have the nuts?

FYI, we all concentrate on the "bread and butter" hands, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. But you missed my point. The point is, these come so infrequently, that you should not bother worrying about what the best line is. So you extract ONE friggin extra big bet because you played it one way vs another. That's fantastic. However, this is the same ONE big bet you would have saved had you folded your TPTK to a river raise in another hand. And you see the latter situation more often. Geez.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, but you aren't seeing the point. We all know to practice the "common hands". This does not negate the urgency to know how to play strong hands right when you see them. You talk about making 1 extra big bet like it's nothing? If you are winning 3BB/100, that is basically paying for 33 more hands.

I'm just saying, don't totally throw away the notion of extraction with monsters. I think that book was written for new players. If you've already played several thousand hands I think it's only natural to start concentrating on the minutia of the game.

You think Johnny Chan or Doyle doesn't know how to extract the most out of flopped quads? Sure, in their case it's more read-dependent and knowing the opponent but still. They will try to extract the most possible, not say "Oh, I'm just gonna bet, bet, bet and hurry up and get this hand over with."

One extra big bet for them is 8 G's. Sure, it's all relative, but even those guys would try anything to win an extra big bet/8G's.

Don't ever think you aren't ready to work on hands that will only happen once in a blue moon?

There are thousands of ways a poker hand can be played. In fact, if you've played less than 5K hands, there is a high likelihood that there is a situation that you have never seen before. Doesn't mean you shouldn't know how to handle it when it happens.

For instance, I've never played a hand that was capped all the way through by 3 people. I've probably never played a hand with 2 opponents that went unraised PF, checked-around on the flop and then had all three players call 3-bets on the turn card... etc.

Thousands of things will happen in a limit ring game. It helps to know exactly how to play in each situation.

11-09-2005, 10:01 PM

raise flop raise turn blah blah blah