Most Overrated Poker Skill [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

willthethrill

11-09-2005, 04:06 PM

This probably has been a post before, but I'm pretty sure at least not for a while. What do you think is the most overrated poker skill? A few days ago there was a top ten of poker skills so it gave me the idea for this post.

11-09-2005, 04:22 PM

Um... the ability to count. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

ANd the most underrated... the ability to stay awake.

Just playing. I got nothin.

housenuts

11-09-2005, 04:23 PM

seeing someone's soul

11-09-2005, 05:16 PM

I'd say that the most overrated skill is hand reading. The most underrated skill is passing SBDs at the table under the radar.

Seriously, I think that the most overrated skill is bluffing. While it's definitely a very important tool, it's something that popular culture seems to put a lot of emphasis on.

Some people play poker as if it's the only tool in the toolbox by using it every hand. Obviously, these aren't winning players. These people don't realize that to run a successful bluffs you have to have the goods a lot of the time...otherwise, why would your opponent fold with, say, bottom pair?

11-09-2005, 05:31 PM

FALSE! TOTALLY FALSE! Bluffing is huge! Sure ok yea those [censored] dorks who put a move on everything theyre in a pot and try crazy impossible bluffs Ok yea i agree thats retarded. But that doesnt mean that bluffing isnt huge. Especially in Big Bet poker. I believe the question was what is the most overrated poker skill. And to be a Top player i mean a real card player, you have to be an artist of the bluff(PERIOD). Personally i think the most overrated poker skill/theory is to adhear to a strict guidelines for preflop hand selection. Sure if you only play monster preflop/3rd St. OK youre gonna do ok in most poker games across the world. But I think the rules about when or when you can play Axs or KJ are way overrated and just stupid. Ok a take that back, when i tought by girlfriend to play poker, we had rules like that, but that was only because it was my money and i didnt want her to go broke before 3 AM. Bluff is huge!!!!! Preflop standards WEAK!!!!!!!

11-09-2005, 06:52 PM

I didn't say that bluffing wasn't important, it is. I think the OP is somewhat loaded; the question doesn't take into account the type of players.

If you're talking about people that somewhat "know" how to play, then your opinion may be right. However, if you're talking about the novice, recreational player, you'll often see them bluff too much. In this case, the most underrated skill would be the opposite. Simply having a preflop standard would greatly improve their game. (Obviously many of these players are oblivious to the concept.)

My point was that a lot of people equate poker with bluffing. I admit that I could still be wrong, but it's just the first thing that pops into my mind as to being overrated for novice players.

Wake up CALL

11-09-2005, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Most Overrated Poker Skill

[/ QUOTE ]

Chip tricks, and it's not even close.

11-09-2005, 08:06 PM

For sure I agree 100% with that. Just tell any girl that you play poker the first thing theyre going to say is owww you must be a good lier then right??? For any novice, 'poker' and 'bluff' are pretty much the same word, i agree. And starting hand standards for someone new to the game should be a MUST! I agree

UATrewqaz

11-09-2005, 08:40 PM

Being "unpredictable"

You hear terrible players often say, "well at least I'm unpredictable"

11-09-2005, 09:34 PM

being unpredictable is HUGE man honestly! Ok let me rephrase, Not being predictable IS HUGE!!!! I totally disagree with you. Predictable players pad the wallets of every cardplayer in the world. Bad players like really bad players man they are tough to beat sometimes jeez WHY? because they are so [censored] unpredictable, the easiest player to beat is Mr Predictable(PERIOD). that is unless you play only online with a player pool of 1,000,000,000 people, ok youre not gonna face the same people often(maybe at big LIMs) and no one is going to remember you. But if you play with the same people even more then one single time, you have to remember not only how they played but how you played agaisnt them and how they think you play. You following me?????

11-10-2005, 12:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most Overrated Poker Skill

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Chip tricks, and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. That's a good answer.

housenuts

11-10-2005, 01:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most Overrated Poker Skill

[/ QUOTE ]

Chip tricks, and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

didn't you see dutch boyd's chip trick segment in the wsop the other year? he says they are very important. essentially, if you know more tricks than the other guy, you are better

11-10-2005, 01:44 AM

patience and rationality

11-10-2005, 02:20 AM

interesting question.

i'd have to say... most overrated poker skill is an ABOVE average ability to deduce odds.

i am of the belief that the most important question is always, "what is he thinking?" and "do i want him to call or fold?"

yes, you need odds in these questions, but they're so easy to calculate, they' re innocuous.

11-10-2005, 02:22 AM

i believe patience may be the most important trait of all.

11-10-2005, 02:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
you need odds in these questions, but they're so easy to calculate, they' re innocuous.

[/ QUOTE ]

decent tag button raises preflop; you call (HU) in BB with 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

the flop is:

A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

you check, button bets

how many outs do you have?

yeah.... good luck to you /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

11-10-2005, 03:01 AM

i'd bet into him in the first place.

honestly, the detail that you would have checked shows me that you might be a weak player.

11-10-2005, 05:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Chip tricks, and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about "cheap tricks" like pretending that you're going to bet by grabbing your chips, but mucking instead. Those ploys rule.

Forbillz

11-10-2005, 09:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most Overrated Poker Skill

[/ QUOTE ]

Chip tricks, and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

didn't you see dutch boyd's chip trick segment in the wsop the other year? he says they are very important. essentially, if you know more tricks than the other guy, you are better

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, and Dutch Boyd's been in and out of hospitals for manic-depression, so I'd discount anything he says as crazy-talk.

11-10-2005, 09:40 AM

i never suggested that I would bet or check in this situation. to be honest against most players i would throw this in the muck preflop with such low implied odds.

all im doing is setting up a situation where you have a decision to make, not suggesting that all the actions leading up to that decision were correct

what im trying to suggest here is that odds work is not nearly as simple as a lot of new people think, its not as easy as saying: i have X outs, therefore i need Y to 1 to make this call....

discounting of outs, back door outs, chances of being ahead, and decisions affecting potential fold equity are all calculations that are incredibly complex and often debatable.

the levels of comprehension involved are massive and i think anyone that truly understands how to use odds throughout a poker hand has one of the biggest and even underrated skills in the game.

phish

11-10-2005, 11:41 AM

The willingness and psychological strength to make the BIG laydown in limit poker.

11-10-2005, 02:32 PM

Most overrated poker skill:

The ability to come up with something "cool" to say for the cameras on ESPN.

Pass the sugar?!

UATrewqaz

11-10-2005, 02:36 PM

The most hillarious part was even though he had the nuts on the flop (and therefor was pretty confident) he could have very easily been outdrawn. Imagine what a tool you feel like if the board pairs on the river.

11-10-2005, 02:48 PM

And then trying to reconcile with the opponent by shaking his hand and saying "whatever happens." Yeah, I'm sure if the guy filled up, Hachem would have just shrugged it off. "Hey, you took my sugar!"

Seriously though, it's apparent that almost all these guys don't just come up with this stuff on the spot. How much time and thought goes into these phrases like "pass the sugar" and "I can dodge bullets, baby"? Obviously, there's some serious thought and planning involved. Practice, even. And for what in return? So guys like us can post back and forth all day about how stupid/cool/rude the guy was on television? Of course, the worst part is that most of them are poorly delivered and look canned.

At least chip tricks look cool.

11-10-2005, 08:36 PM

luckycharms

11-12-2005, 03:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
For sure I agree 100% with that. Just tell any girl that you play poker the first thing theyre going to say is owww you must be a good lier then right??? For any novice, 'poker' and 'bluff' are pretty much the same word, i agree. And starting hand standards for someone new to the game should be a MUST! I agree

[/ QUOTE ]

don't post if you don't know crap about poker or don't wanna post what this post is about.

most overrated skill (at least for us mortals): multigame skill (omaha, etc) If you can play holdem profitably online, why learn stud hilo?

(ironically, i take pride in my multigame skills)

Vex

11-13-2005, 12:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The willingness and psychological strength to make the BIG laydown in limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen. Only yesterday I was arguing with a couple folks on the micro-limit forums who were advocating calling the flop with QQ when there was an A on the board, then folding the turn when a brick lands. My line was, fold if you are really sure you're behind, or raise to see where you're at. Their line was call, fishing for a third Q or a card to make a straight.

MCS

11-13-2005, 01:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The willingness and psychological strength to make the BIG laydown in limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen. Only yesterday I was arguing with a couple folks on the micro-limit forums who were advocating calling the flop with QQ when there was an A on the board, then folding the turn when a brick lands. My line was, fold if you are really sure you're behind, or raise to see where you're at. Their line was call, fishing for a third Q or a card to make a straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does this have anything to do "making big laydowns in limit poker"?

Anyway I don't have a single answer to the initial question because different levels of players overrate different skills.

11-13-2005, 09:24 AM

nomadtla

11-13-2005, 07:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The willingness and psychological strength to make the BIG laydown in limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen. Only yesterday I was arguing with a couple folks on the micro-limit forums who were advocating calling the flop with QQ when there was an A on the board, then folding the turn when a brick lands. My line was, fold if you are really sure you're behind, or raise to see where you're at. Their line was call, fishing for a third Q or a card to make a straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

link?

i dont believe this ever happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

It did happen here. Linky (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3916792&page=0&fpart=1&v c=1).
However what Vex fails to mention that he advocated raising a preflop capper on a AJT (2 clubs) board, when hero has two red queens. To "find out where you are at"

Most underrated skill in micro-limit poker: being able to "tell where you're at" when Fishy McFisherson 3-bets your -ev raise.

11-13-2005, 09:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The willingness and psychological strength to make the BIG laydown in limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen. Only yesterday I was arguing with a couple folks on the micro-limit forums who were advocating calling the flop with QQ when there was an A on the board, then folding the turn when a brick lands. My line was, fold if you are really sure you're behind, or raise to see where you're at. Their line was call, fishing for a third Q or a card to make a straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

link?

i dont believe this ever happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

It did happen here. Linky (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3916792&page=0&fpart=1&v c=1).
However what Vex fails to mention that he advocated raising a preflop capper on a AJT (2 clubs) board, when hero has two red queens. To "find out where you are at"

Most underrated skill in micro-limit poker: being able to "tell where you're at" when Fishy McFisherson 3-bets your -ev raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

nh nh

noone disses ml! well repped nomadtla... our work here is done hahah /images/graemlins/grin.gif