More fun w/middle pair

[me454555]

LAG button (40/20 over 50 hands) open limps, I complete in the sb w/K9s. Taggy bb checks.

Flop AK5 rainbow

I check bb checks button bets I call bb folds

Turn 8

I check button checks

River 6

I check call

How'd I do? I'm thinking I shoulda bet the river and folded to a raise

[EvanJC]

i'd be raising this preflop if bb can fold. were you trying to checkraise the turn? as it played out, i don't think bet/folding the river would be bad

Too passive. The 40/20 is playing his button with trash. There's no reason to put him on a monster just b/c of his button limp. So...

- bet the flop, or with the line you took, c/r the flop

- bet the turn

- bet the river

You're basically going to showdown if HU against the monkey.

I agree, bet the river.

Is there some reason you don't bet this flop, though? Making second or third button in the SB in a small pot is one of the hardest spots for me so far in 6-max, so an explanation of why you check called would be great.

[me454555]

I don't bet the flop b/c I don't want to get raised. Button is bad but also aggressive bad so he could be raising w/an A as well as another random hand like a worse K or PP. I didn't want to deal w/the decision of calling a raise and then check folding or check calling the turn.

[me454555]

I'm not putting button on a monster but an A is certainly within his realm of hands, as is a worse K and a PP. By check calling the flop and turn, I can get him to bluff when I'm ahead and get to showdown cheap when I'm behind

[me454555]

I was actually just planning on check calling the turn. A raise pf is interesting but I hate playing these hands OOP when I miss the flop. On top of that, BB is likely to call given that he's getting 4:1 and I don't know how much of an equity edge I have to push.

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I'm not putting button on a monster but an A is certainly within his realm of hands, as is a worse K and a PP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not from a 40/20 player. More often than not you're going to see J7s or 45s or something.

[me454555]

[ QUOTE ]
Not from a 40/20 player. More often than not you're going to see J7s or 45s or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

If thats the case, I'd rather keep him bluffing than blow him out of the hand

[Wynton]

This doesn't sound like a guy who's going to be blown out of the hand; it sounds more like someone who'd call a c/r and keep calling with bottom pair. I think you need to bet or raise somewhere.

[KDawgCometh]

you played this really passive IMO. I'm raising PF with the button open donker. I'm also finding a CR in there also against this opponent, most likely on the flop. I'm not finding a fold anywhere against this villian

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A raise pf is interesting but I hate playing these hands OOP when I miss the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is precisely why you raise marginal hands preflop. Do you see why?

[Noodles]

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Quote:
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A raise pf is interesting but I hate playing these hands OOP when I miss the flop.


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This is precisely why you raise marginal hands preflop. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

ummm no i dont see,why exactly?

When you raise/3-bet preflop with somewhat marginal hands OOP, your autobet on a flop with overcards helps to define your hand very well, as long as you're not playing a thinking TAG or a maniac LAG. Against most average players, as well as monkeys, you'll know pretty quickly on the flop where villain stands. Trickier players will smooth call your flop bet and raise you on the turn, which is harder to adjust to, but generally, raising these hands preflop makes it much easier to play after the flop.

[Stack]

Looks like I'm the only one who plays it exactly the same. Let him bluff his worse hands for you. He looks laggy, so he would have probably open raised preflop with any Ace or King. Don't blow him off his junk.

(I can see a preflop raise on your part depending on your recent history with the lag and the BB though)

I say well played.

[KDawgCometh]

fold equity and value, since our hand is generally gonna be stronger then the open limper's

[me454555]

I very much disagree with your assessment. If I raise pf, its likely going to be a 3 way hand w/6 sbs in the pot. If I bet any flop, people are getting 7:1 to call and will likely do so with any 2 cards. If I hit the flop, 7:1 isn't that bad for them to peel with if they hit a piece also. If I miss the flop 7:1 is fine odds for them to call me w/just about any 2 cards. On top of that, lets pick out the times when I bet the flop and get called by 1 opponent. How does that define his hand? He could have middle pair, bottom pair, or even tpwk afraid of domination. Whats my play on the turn. If I check, he bets, I could be folding incorectly if he's got bottom pair or calling incorrectly if he's got top pair.

I don't know how much equity edge I have pf and I can't really take advantage of it too much when I'm oop.

For the record, I wasnt recommending raising preflop. I just was stating the general rationale for why one would raise preflop with a marginal holding. I think in order for a preflop raise to be correct, you need to be assured the BB is going to fold. It's certainly not a clear raise, and I probably play the preflop like you did. No point in bloating the pot multiway when Im OOP holding crappy cards.