flopped a boat.. now what?

[schwza]

last 2 tables of empire $100. top 10 pay. we just got here, but i know the the pfr'er does not raise very much pre-flop.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

CO (t7670)
Button (t5713)
Hero (t4865)
BB (t3325)
UTG (t2615)
UTG+1 (t2890)
UTG+2 (t2341)
MP1 (t5775)
MP2 (t6470)
MP3 (t2074)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls t225, BB calls t150.

Flop: (t900) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
hero?

[People_Mover]

check/call, lead turn?

[jccookjr]

Check and call flop and turn. If he keeps leading pop him on the river.

Why not bet and give him proper odds on a flush draw? He may also call thinking his pp is still good. Didn't a poster previously declare fastplaying to be the new slowplay??

fold, someone could have the other pair of 9's.

[woodguy]

I lead with an underfull OOP, to give the chance for the PFR to raise and start building this pot on the flop, so the bets on all subsequent streets are nice and big.

If he raises, then I call, check the turn and see what he does.

EDIT: If a /images/graemlins/heart.gif comes off on the turn I lead so he can push me off my bluff/draw

If he commits himself on the turn, I put him all in.

If he doesn't commit to the turn I call and lead the river.

Regards,
Woodguy

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
check/call, lead turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is used to give you more fold equity... not something you want to do here.

----

I lead into him, if he doesnt raise much like you said, his chances of having an overpair get pretty nice and i cant imagine him not raising you with a pair.

So yea, i lead into him for like a half-pot bet.

[EverettKings]

[ QUOTE ]
I lead with an underfull OOP, to give the chance for the PFR to raise and start building this pot on the flop, so the bets on all subsequent streets are nice and big.

If he raises, then I call, check the turn and see what he does.

If he commits himself on the turn, I put him all in.

If he doesn't commit to the turn I call and lead the river.

Regards,
Woodguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Works for me. Either this guy has a hand (read: overpair) or he doesn't, and if he does then a checkraise scares him and keeps the pot down where as a lead/get raised keeps him guessing and makes this pot juicy. The key is to keep him a bit confused but keep getting money into the pot, via a mix of betting and checking and doing the chicken dance. If he airballed and he folds, who cares.

And ignore the hearts. Please. If I never saw someone mention betting out (or pricing in) a flush draw on a two suited board HU in a raised pot again I'd be very happy.

Everett

It would depend on my table image.

If I had been playing laggish then I would bet out 300 and hope one of them has something they are willing to play for. I think you get the most action that way as you can build a pot and either milk a 2nd best hand for alot of chips or induce a big bluff on later streets.

Then again if you have been playing very tight then there is a big chance they will fold to any opening bet from the small blind with that board. In that case I would check/call and see how they react hoping to pop them on the turn or river.

[schwza]

it's 3-way, not HU.

It's always wonderful to flop the boat, now isn't it??

I was playing in the satelites at the Rio for the WSOP events, and had just won a pot.

Cards were dealt around, the UTG limped in, as did the person next to him, and I was still picking up my chips from the previous hand, so, when it came to me, and the blinds were not too big, so distracted, I didn't even bother to look at my cards, I thought ... what the heck, and just tossed in the needed amount, and went back to counting my chips (I was two off from the UTG position), and no one raised before the flop.

Well, the flop came A, 9, 9 with two spades.

The blinds check, as does the UTG and his neighbor, I check (still counting my chips after all from the previous pot), and the guy after me bets the pot.

It went fold, fold, fold to the button, who said raise ... and then doubled what was in the pot.

Well, the blinds fold, as does the UTG and his neighbor, and it came to me ... and now I HAVE to look.

I look down ... and find the rockets.

It was all I could do to keep from shaking.

I just happened to had stacked from my previous pot win, the exact amount, so since my hands were starting to shake, I put them flat on the felt, and waited and waited in an effort of hoping they'd stop. They didn't, so I slowly pushed that stack in (and I'm sure now due to my hesitation, the guy thought I was on a flush draw or something), and said in a small voice, call.

By now, both men left in the hand, have misread what I have ... and think I'm on a flush draw, and the guy to my left, then announces 'all in' (figuring at the very least, that *I* would fold I guess).

The guy on the button, who has more chips then the guy who went all in, but LESS chips then me (but not by much), then says ... I go all in too.

They are both now looking at me expectently ... (expecting me to fold), to which I say ... I call them both.

We all flip over our cards, and they look in stunned silence at my rockets.

One guy has Ace 9, the other guy has 8,9 suited (red, I can't remember which suit).

Sometimes ignorance (not knowing what you have before the flop) is bliss ... /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[schwza]

apparently i'm going against what most people wanted to do, but i checked. i figured that this way i could probably get a bet out of the pfr if he has overs and that i'll wind up getting his stack in if he has an overpair.

but then the BB woke up and bet....

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

CO (t7670)
Button (t5713)
Hero (t4865)
BB (t3325)
UTG (t2615)
UTG+1 (t2890)
UTG+2 (t2341)
MP1 (t5775)
MP2 (t6470)
MP3 (t2074)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls t225, BB calls t150.

Flop: (t900) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t600</font>, MP2 folds, hero?

now what?

I like to call here, and lead out on a turn in case he is drawing to a flush. If he has a 9 and you lead out, he is going to call you if a heart doesn't fall and he has a 9, and if a heart does fall, you can probably check and get him to bet any 9/flush he has. If he checks behind on the turn after a heart falls, I bet on the river.

I think he would fold to a check raise unless he has a 9 or you minraise and he has the heart flush draw.

I could also see minraising here and then let him try to bluff raise/ raise me when the 3rd heart falls since I wouldn't be representing the flush.

If he doesn't have a 9 or 2 hearts, he will probably fold if you minraise this flop though, its possible he is just stealing here, or he has a pocket pair thinking his hand is best, which might fold to a raise here.

Still, I think I slowplay and call then lead out on the turn.

sweet. that's the kind of bed time story I like to hear before I go to sleep. very sweet.

[CardSharpCook]

The problem with showing ANY aggression in this hand is that it screams "I HAVE A 9!!!" On the other hand, if someone actually has a nine... I too would have lead out the flop. (fast-playing IS the new slow-playing). Played like you did, I would check the turn too. A nice chk/raise, leaving room for a call by a flush draw.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with showing ANY aggression in this hand is that it screams "I HAVE A 9!!!" On the other hand, if someone actually has a nine... I too would have lead out the flop. (fast-playing IS the new slow-playing). Played like you did, I would check the turn too. A nice chk/raise, leaving room for a call by a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you're saying to call the flop?

[MLG]

there's no answer here. I think I see this problem in a number of your posts. There are any number of ways to play this hand, and the one that you chose should depend on how you play other hands. If you bet out a lot, bet out. If you cr bluff a lot, then cr. if you check call a lot, then check call. This is all about your style, and very minimally about the cards.

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
there's no answer here. I think I see this problem in a number of your posts. There are any number of ways to play this hand, and the one that you chose should depend on how you play other hands. If you bet out a lot, bet out. If you cr bluff a lot, then cr. if you check call a lot, then check call. This is all about your style, and very minimally about the cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good point. Schwza, I call the flop, but MLG IS correct in that it is a player specific problem. A looser, more aggressive player will have a much easier time getting this to pay off.

I can see calling here or min raising him. I think at this point it is almost entirely read dependent on how your opponent has played in other hands post flop. It is HU now, so he may try another volley after the turn.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
there's no answer here. I think I see this problem in a number of your posts. There are any number of ways to play this hand, and the one that you chose should depend on how you play other hands. If you bet out a lot, bet out. If you cr bluff a lot, then cr. if you check call a lot, then check call. This is all about your style, and very minimally about the cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think that this is a very valid point in a game where i have played / will play with people a lot. here, i've played with the pfr'er a lot but not the bb, so it can't really affect my decision of what to do after the pfr'er folds.

[nsj]

[ QUOTE ]
(fast-playing IS the new slow-playing)

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I would have led for 400 and see what transpired from there.
As it is, I call the flop bet.
On the turn, pot is 2100. You have ~4000 left.
I like leading a *blank* (no /images/graemlins/heart.gif, no 5 or T) for 800 or so, looking for a raise so you can put him in. If he calls, obviously hope for another *blank* and push any river.