Children - what should I do?

[jackdaniels]

My wife and I have been married for about 4 years now, no kids. I'm 31, she is 29. She has always wanted kids but lately has been dropping hints about the possibility of a childless marriage. How do I encourage this attitude without appearing overzealous about the prospect? (I would avoid kids if it was possible to stay with her without them, but would have kids if it meant the marriage was over otherwise). She kinda knows where I stand, but I have always given the impresion that we'll have kids "when the time is right", tying it in to some fincancial goals we have (which we are meeting quite quickly - this is both a blessing and a curse as the kids question may pop up again).

Help me OOT!

[IndieMatty]

I haven't had my coffee yet. But, you don't want kids right? Does she want kids? Is she now saying "maybe we won't have kids?"

I couldn't imagine not wanting to have a child with someone I love. It seems so natural.

[diebitter]

Captain Obvious prediction: She's sounding you out. You'll have em, and will cave within 6 months. You won't regret it, in the end. You'll be very glad you did, in fact.

[ChipWrecked]

I waited until 40 to pop my first child. Now, I love her so much I'm almost worried that if we have another I won't love him enough. (him. heh.)

[jackdaniels]

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. Lately she's been doing a lot of talking about how much work it would be, how much freedom she would lose, how scary it is if they have special needs (her cousin had a baby with special needs - this shook her). All in all I think she may be coming around to my line of thinking (let's enjoy all that life has to offer and each others company - we should neither sadle ourselves with responsibility, nor place that responsibility on our kids when we get older).

I'm hoping I can nudge her in that direction.

[Shajen]

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I waited until 40 to pop my first child. Now, I love her so much I'm almost worried that if we have another I won't love him enough. (him. heh.)

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I'm not a father (that I know of), but I think you'll be fine dude.

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

To the OP:

If you really don't want to have kids, you need to get together a mental list of reasons you don't (and they'll need to be good) and present them to her during a discussion of this issue.

If your reasons are lame, maybe you need to re-evaluate? (i'm not saying they are) The idea of having kids is scary to me, I mean, I feel like a kid myself, you know? But I imagine I will, when the time is right. There's no rush either, she's young and so are you. Give it time.

[IndieMatty]

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Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. Lately she's been doing a lot of talking about how much work it would be, how much freedom she would lose, how scary it is if they have special needs (her cousin had a baby with special needs - this shook her). All in all I think she may be coming around to my line of thinking (let's enjoy all that life has to offer and each others company - we should neither sadle ourselves with responsibility, nor place that responsibility on our kids when we get older).

I'm hoping I can nudge her in that direction.

[/ QUOTE ]

The special needs thing freaks me out as well. The correct answer Jack is to be honest and upfront with her, because seriously, this isn't the type of situation where you want to be the least bit deceptive. Come on man...

[ChipWrecked]

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(let's enjoy all that life has to offer and each others company - we should neither sadle ourselves with responsibility, nor place that responsibility on our kids when we get older).


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You have no idea how much you will enjoy life when you watch your kid explore his/her new world. Speaking as someone with eyebags to his jaw line.

[MelK]

Buy a fancy new car and some other luxuries, and then manage to lose your job.

Sudden financial difficulty = no kids.

[4_2_it]

Stay neutral on this topic. I would reinforce her thought process if she currently is leaning towards no kids, but would agree to anything in concrete.

Before she is 40, her bio alarm clock will sound and you will need to answer the call to duty. There is no telling what will set it off, but usually friends or relatives with newborns trigger it.

Having said that, I am the proud father of two girls and I would not trade that experience for anything.

[jackdaniels]

Lotsa good advice here.

I hear from everyone I know who has kids that:

1. It is MUCH harder than they bargained for (most people have kids because "they are supposed to" - without giving it much thought)

2. That they wouldn't trade the experience for ANYTHING (not to say there aren't people out there who would reverse the decision if it was possible, I just don't know any firsthand - well, except one guy, but he is also divorced so this may not count)

All in all, I think my biggest fear is that if I have children and don't like the situation, there really is no way back; you simply have to live with the consequences till the kids are old enough to take care of themselves. This irrevocable life changing decision is what scares me most. Shajen said he still "feels like a kid" and as such can't see himself having kids just yet. He also says that he thinks this will pass and eventually he will be "ready". Well, I feel the same way and DON"T want to change. I hope I can go through life feeling like a kid and if having kids is going to change that, well, that's just more of a reason to avoid the situation all together.

As for making a list of the good reasons for not having kids and discussiong with my wife: My procrastination technique has worked well so far and I worry that "having a serious talk" will simply reinforce my wife's yearning to have children. In fact, I worry that she will try to "win" the "should we have kids" argument just for the sake of "winning the argument" (not sure if this behaviour is specific to my wife or if other wives behave in a similar fashion) - ofcourse, this will end in a stance which will be very hard for her to reverse (since she will have "drawn her line in the sand" so to speak and will not want to "back down").

[Shajen]

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In fact, I worry that she will try to "win" the "should we have kids" argument just for the sake of "winning the argument" (not sure if this behaviour is specific to my wife or if other wives behave in a similar fashion) - ofcourse, this will end in a stance which will be very hard for her to reverse (since she will have "drawn her line in the sand" so to speak and will not want to "back down").

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Ah, good point. The ole competitive arguing counter punch.

She's crafty. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jackdaniels]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In fact, I worry that she will try to "win" the "should we have kids" argument just for the sake of "winning the argument" (not sure if this behaviour is specific to my wife or if other wives behave in a similar fashion) - ofcourse, this will end in a stance which will be very hard for her to reverse (since she will have "drawn her line in the sand" so to speak and will not want to "back down").

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, good point. The ole competitive arguing counter punch.

She's crafty. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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You don't know the half of it... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[4_2_it]

I have two kids and I still feel like a kid. Your life circumstances change when you have kids, but mentally you don't change. I love playing video games and CIV 4 with my oldest daughter. I look forward to introducing to that which we dare not name in a few years.

Plus, when you take your kids (3-6 years old) out by yourself to say Hooters, you get a lot of extra attention because your situation is obvious. (If the Hooter's girl is a knockout and you are a douche, you can always use the "It's a real shame about their mother" story. I haven't tried it, but I would predict that it has to have a 90% hit rate.)

My dad is 62 and one of the most profound things he has told me is that mentally he still feels like an 18-year old a lot of time. The older I get, the truer the words.

[Bluffoon]

[ QUOTE ]
Lotsa good advice here.

I hear from everyone I know who has kids that:

1. It is MUCH harder than they bargained for (most people have kids because "they are supposed to" - without giving it much thought)

2. That they wouldn't trade the experience for ANYTHING (not to say there aren't people out there who would reverse the decision if it was possible, I just don't know any firsthand - well, except one guy, but he is also divorced so this may not count)

All in all, I think my biggest fear is that if I have children and don't like the situation, there really is no way back; you simply have to live with the consequences till the kids are old enough to take care of themselves. This irrevocable life changing decision is what scares me most. Shajen said he still "feels like a kid" and as such can't see himself having kids just yet. He also says that he thinks this will pass and eventually he will be "ready". Well, I feel the same way and DON"T want to change. I hope I can go through life feeling like a kid and if having kids is going to change that, well, that's just more of a reason to avoid the situation all together.

As for making a list of the good reasons for not having kids and discussiong with my wife: My procrastination technique has worked well so far and I worry that "having a serious talk" will simply reinforce my wife's yearning to have children. In fact, I worry that she will try to "win" the "should we have kids" argument just for the sake of "winning the argument" (not sure if this behaviour is specific to my wife or if other wives behave in a similar fashion) - ofcourse, this will end in a stance which will be very hard for her to reverse (since she will have "drawn her line in the sand" so to speak and will not want to "back down").

[/ QUOTE ]

Im the last guy that is going to encourage you to have kids if you are not sure you want them. It is a huge responsibility and a life-long committment. If you want to continue to feel like a kid though then have kids. You get to play like a "kid" with them all the time. I find being a parent from an adult perspective rewarding beyond belief on it's own but I love my "kid" time.

[Los Feliz Slim]

You could always "accidentally" sever your testicles. That might work.

If you don't want kids, don't have kids. It's wonderful, but it is hard at times (and we have a very easy baby). If you feel like you got talked into it it's going to be a long, long, road. You're going to need to be honest with your wife. Honestly, IMO if the options are A) stay with wife and have kids you don't want or B) not have kids, wife leaves; option B makes more sense to me. The world already has way, way, way too many unwanted kids.

[daveymck]

The hardest part about kids isnt the first year of sleepless nights and constant attention they need, it is the change in dynamic in your relationship and the effect it has on your lifestyle. For example you could go home tonight and say lets goto the movies or a bar or whatever and do it, with kids it takes more planning. As they get older you find their social life takes over a bit of yours, with parties and whatever else they do sports etc.

With my relationship it was a kids included package which made my decision to want one of our own easier, but I do regret that we didnt have that single time together to travel etc.

You still will feel like a kid, just like at time you will probably feel like your father, you still can play games, have playstations etc etc with kids you dont have to change most of what you are.

There probably never is a "right" time to have kids anytime you have them it involves sacrifice and compromise.

All this sounds bad but there is probabvly no better thing in the world, having someone who lights up and runs towards you everytime they see you again, as well as all the other stuff is just great.

It does sound like she may be sounding out your reaction, I wouldnt try and push her either way more so if you deciede not to have them cos it could be somthing she blames you for down the line if regret kicks in. I would listen and talk it through with her in a nuetral way and see where she wants to go.

[MaxPower]

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Captain Obvious prediction: She's sounding you out. You'll have em, and will cave within 6 months. You won't regret it, in the end. You'll be very glad you did, in fact.

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I agree. If she didn't want to have kids she would already know and she would have discussed it with you already.

The fact that she is even discussing it means that she is considering having a baby.

There are a lot of web pages and newsgroups for people who want to live childfree and I have looked at some of them. There are two camps, those that have made a personal decision not to have children, and those that despise children and parents. While I respect the former group, I think the latter group are mostly insane.

[RunDownHouse]

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All this sounds bad but there is probabvly no better thing in the world, having someone who lights up and runs towards you everytime they see you again

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Man, I can't wait to go home and see my dog.

FWIW, I'd definitely recommend getting a dog to any couple that's been together a while. Kind of a baby-step towards thinking about kids, since together you're responsible for another living creature. Patrick, I think a good picture of Bowser will complete this hijack nicely.

[dcasper70]

Very similiar situation here (35, 32). I used to have your position, but have changed. We're trying now.

The big thoughts that pushed me over were.
a) I knew that if we had kids, I wouldn't regret it. I was just a little selfish and, yes, terrified about the 'regime change'.
b) I was very worried that if we didn't have kids, I'd regret it tremendously when I was older.
c) If we tried and failed, item b above would cease to be a factor. I'd chalk it up to fate/destiny/God, whatever.


If these thoughts don't go through your head and your primary goal is to swing her, I'd suggest lots and lots of travelling. Throw in plenty of spa treatments, jewelery, and romantic dinners. She's gotta want to keep the lifestyle.
If she gets baby tunnelvision, you're done, game over.

Lucky for you, either path is a winner.

[ripdog]

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All this sounds bad but there is probabvly no better thing in the world, having someone who lights up and runs towards you everytime they see you again

[/ QUOTE ]
Man, I can't wait to go home and see my dog.

FWIW, I'd definitely recommend getting a dog to any couple that's been together a while. Kind of a baby-step towards thinking about kids, since together you're responsible for another living creature. Patrick, I think a good picture of Bowser will complete this hijack nicely.

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I am a big fan of dogs, have two, and am shocked at how little they mean to me compared to what my son means to me. Dogs are great, but you cannot compare love for dogs with love for kids.

[coffeecrazy1]

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Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. Lately she's been doing a lot of talking about how much work it would be, how much freedom she would lose, how scary it is if they have special needs (her cousin had a baby with special needs - this shook her). All in all I think she may be coming around to my line of thinking (let's enjoy all that life has to offer and each others company - we should neither sadle ourselves with responsibility, nor place that responsibility on our kids when we get older).

I'm hoping I can nudge her in that direction.

[/ QUOTE ]

The special needs thing freaks me out as well. The correct answer Jack is to be honest and upfront with her, because seriously, this isn't the type of situation where you want to be the least bit deceptive. Come on man...

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the same thing(despite being unmarried and childless). Is honesty not a good policy here? I would hope you could be upfront with your wife, especially after 4 years of marriage...I'm hoping you don't still have things to hide.

If you're scared, tell her that. If you're wanting to stay like you are, then tell her that. She may not like your answers. She may want you two to go to counseling(if she's hellbent on having kids). But, at least you would be making progress.

I dunno...maybe this is the wrong play...it's not like I'm any good with women, or kids, for that matter(independent almost-only child(brother is much older)).

[jackdaniels]

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All this sounds bad but there is probabvly no better thing in the world, having someone who lights up and runs towards you everytime they see you again

[/ QUOTE ]
Man, I can't wait to go home and see my dog.

FWIW, I'd definitely recommend getting a dog to any couple that's been together a while. Kind of a baby-step towards thinking about kids, since together you're responsible for another living creature. Patrick, I think a good picture of Bowser will complete this hijack nicely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a big fan of dogs, have two, and am shocked at how little they mean to me compared to what my son means to me. Dogs are great, but you cannot compare love for dogs with love for kids.

[/ QUOTE ]

We actually have a cat. My wife LOVES her (well, to be honest, I do too). I am hoping that need to "love something/someone" will be taken out on our cat as it makes it much easier to pick up and go when we want to (she is a flight attendant so we travel often - something we proly wouldn't be able to do as much with kids).

With pets I find that they give you unconditional love, so long as you are good to them, which is nice (as good of a kid as I was, I hope my kids don't put me through what I put my parents through). Kinda like grandchildren/small children do I guess (although once they grow up, things change and they don't wanna hang out with you anymore). My dad, who has grandkids from my sister once said he loved his grandkids only he wished he could skip the middle man. I thought that was both funny and telling.

Food for thought.

[imported_anacardo]

I am profoundly curious to know what my children will be like.

[RunDownHouse]

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Dogs are great, but you cannot compare love for dogs with love for kids.

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I didn't mean to imply that having a dog was equivalent to having a kid. But a pet is a "baby step" towards evaluating how you and your SO will interact when a living creature is put in your charge. If your boyfriend gets drunk and kicks the dog, you may want to reevaluate procreating with him.

[ddubois]

Be aware that the older your wife gets, the higher the probability that you could have difficulty if/when you actually do try and conceive. I'm not sure when this phenomina becomes acute, but it's something to consider. Some people wait until you they are millionaries, partners in their firm, or whatever, and then find themsevels dropping thousands upon thousands at fertility clinics. That seems like it would be a very painful, regrettable experience.

No matter how many platitudes people tell you, the realty is you won't truly understand the upside of having kids until you've actually got one. Millions of years of evolution take over, and the instincts invovled in parenting consume you. Nothing in my life matters except my children, and I don't mean that in a bad "I can't do anything anymore" way, I mean the "I would take a bullet for them" way.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
Be aware that the older your wife gets, the higher the probability that you could have difficulty if/when you actually do try and conceive. I'm not sure when this phenomina becomes acute, but it's something to consider. Some people wait until you they are millionaries, partners in their firm, or whatever, and then find themsevels dropping thousands upon thousands at fertility clinics. That seems like it would be a very painful, regrettable experience.


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He's got a while. This doesn't kick in until she gets past 35.