Bellagio 30/60 62s hand

[Chris Daddy Cool]

spent all that time in vegas and didn't really play that many interesting hands.

this is one of my first ones on thursday.

30/60 at the bellagio. i am playing tight and people precieve me as... well i'm not sure because i haven't done anything interesting at all.

there is a poster in the co as she is coming back from a break. an asian local raises utg+2. CO calls. loose button calls. sb calls. I call in the bb with 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. 5 to the flop for 10.5 small bets (.5 for the dead money from the post)

flop: K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

sb checks. i check. utg+2 bets. co calls. button folds. sb folds. i call. 3 ways to the turn for 6.75 big bets.

turn: 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I check. utg+2 bets. CO folds. I call. HU on the river for 8.75 big bets.

river: K /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I bet. He raises. I 3-bet. He 4-bets. I fold.

Meh?

Just don't 3 bet there.

[andyfox]

I'd have folded on the flop because with K-J out there it's too likely I'm already up against two pair. Id'be more inclined to call if the flop was something like K-8-2.

[mike l.]

i always fold that flop now, but the river is a work of art. nicely played.

[Maulik]

check/call is the only line on the river.

[Brom]

Why not bet/call? PFR could easily have AK. I don't like a 3-bet because once you are beat you are getting 4-bet 99% of the time, and maybe not even called some of the other times. It's good that you are confident enough to fold to a 4-bet though.

With that said, I'd say that I never even make it to the river. I maybe fold preflop depending on the lineup, and more probably fold on the flop. I don't condemn the OP for calling preflop however, because some people play cards like this better than I can.

[andyfox]

"maybe fold preflop depending on the lineup, and more probably fold on the flop. I don't condemn the OP for calling preflop however, because some people play cards like this better than I can."

Nobody plays 6-2 well. Those cards play you, you don't play them.

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd have folded on the flop because with K-J out there it's too likely I'm already up against two pair. Id'be more inclined to call if the flop was something like K-8-2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the threat of KJ is too serious, because in that case you would still have 2 deuce outs and the backdoor flush draw, making the flop call slightly bad but not horrible (and certainly KJ is not out all the time; in fact, it's usually not in anyone's hand).

More serious is the possibility of being up against KK or JJ, in which case you are drawing almost dead. Is that enough to negate the implied odds you have against AK/AA (possibly even KQ or QQ depending how villain plays)?

I think the flop peel is close (but probably slightly +EV). In a live game, I like to play any time it's close, because all things being equal, I'd like to have an image of gamboooler. If I end up showing down 62s and it gets me a cold-call the next time I raise preflop from someone who would have folded had he not seen my 62s at showdown, then I come out a big winner.

Of course, if the play is clearly -EV, then I fold. But we have 6 outs here often enough to peel, making up for those times when we only have 3 outs or are drawing to the runner-runner flush that doesn't pair the board.

[baronzeus]

i hate your river 3bet. i'd rather check-raise and call a 3bet. or check-raise and fold to a 3bet if you are confient of your read.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i hate checkraising this river.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
i hate your river 3bet. i'd rather check-raise and call a 3bet. or check-raise and fold to a 3bet if you are confient of your read.

[/ QUOTE ]


actually i dont know anymore. the more ithink about it the more i like bet/3betting the river.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i just wanted to emphasize again that i think checkraising this river flat out sucks. glad to see you're rethinking it. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[PokerBob]

are you sure he doesn'tdo this with any K? hard to give you running hearts here, isn't it? I dunno. I feel like I really want to show this down.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
i just wanted to emphasize again that i think checkraising this river flat out sucks. glad to see you're rethinking it. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, bet/3bet has gotta be the way to go. he'll raise a worse hand (Kx) often enough (55%+) to allow you to 3bet here. but you definitely have to fold when he 4bets.

just out of curiousity, what exactly do you not like about c/ring?


edit: fwiw, i didnt see your post about how much you hate c/ring until after i made my second post, or i would have just asked you there.

[RED_RAIN]

[ QUOTE ]
are you sure he doesn'tdo this with any K? hard to give you running hearts here, isn't it? I dunno. I feel like I really want to show this down.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the exact hand I put people on with this river play. I do and sometimes don't raise the river here with hand like AK.

[billyjex]

Well, you do, but does an "asian local" do this? I have no idea what the hell that means towards a style of play. Is he competent, crazy, not stupid? I don't understand how I can comment on such a river play with a read of "asain local" to run on.

[PokerCad]

I agree with Andy here,,kinda poker 101 in why you don't play these cards

[Robb]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like a 3-bet because once you are beat you are getting 4-bet 99% of the time, and maybe not even called some of the other times.

[/ QUOTE ]
It looks like you just made a case that 3-bet fold to 4-bet is a good play.

[NMcNasty]

I like your play all the way to the river fold. You're getting almost 16 to 1. You're over 93% sure he's not overplaying AK, KQ, or even AA? There's no reason to make fancy folds like this at 30/60, and even if you do sometimes you certainly can't make a habit out of them.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Andy here,,kinda poker 101 in why you don't play these cards

[/ QUOTE ]
Does poker 101 include anything on preflop pot odds?

[Entity]

I already told you this, but I play it the same.

Rob

[GuyOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
check/call is the only line on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
No no, the Vegas pro is the OTHER guy in the hand.

GoT

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]

just out of curiousity, what exactly do you not like about c/ring?


[/ QUOTE ]

think about it this way.

given that a flush just backdoored, a king is raising this river A TON and all but the best players will call my 3 bet. with my line, when i get 3 bets on this river my hand is always good. with a checkraising line, if i get 3 bets in on this river my hand is poopoo. see what i mean?