Weak poker?

[Nietzsche]

SB is unknown.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
[color=#666666]2 folds</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif [color=#0000FF](3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
SB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

River: (6 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

[Spicymoose]

It's fine. Except for your formatting.

Fold preflop except against tight blinds.

[baronzeus]

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Fold preflop except against tight blinds.

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nah.

i probably bet/fold the river and expect to be called by QQ-55 every time, A high.

[Spicymoose]

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i probably bet/fold the river and expect to be called by QQ-55 every time, A high.

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Thanks for changing my opinion. You are right.

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Fold preflop except against tight blinds.

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nah.

i probably bet/fold the river and expect to be called by QQ-55 every time, A high.

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Yeah, except any big ace, and pocket pair down to 77 would have three-bet preflop, so you cant exactly put them on those cards.

I check this river 100% of the time because there are two ways you've been outdrawn, and you're chopping with any king. Plus, if either one of these guys is funny, he may checkraise you with an ace-rag or king, and try to get you to fold.

More to the point, why raise K7o against unknown blinds. You have better than random preflop equity, but I think your edge is pretty small so you better be able to "outplay" these guys. I mean, notwithstanding your PF equity, you're not going to take king high to the river, so there are lots of ways for tricky players to screw you on the flop or turn.

[Nietzsche]

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i probably bet/fold the river and expect to be called by QQ-55 every time, A high.

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Thanks for changing my opinion. You are right.

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Is this A high enough times to make a bet profitable though? Bet/fold also makes me vulnerable to a bluff. Given he is unknown that would suck.

[Spicymoose]

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Fold preflop except against tight blinds.

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nah.

i probably bet/fold the river and expect to be called by QQ-55 every time, A high.

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Yeah, except any big ace, and pocket pair down to 77 would have three-bet preflop, so you cant exactly put them on those cards.

I check this river 100% of the time because there are two ways you've been outdrawn, and you're chopping with any king. Plus, if either one of these guys is funny, he may checkraise you with an ace-rag or king, and try to get you to fold.

More to the point, why raise K7o against unknown blinds. You have better than random preflop equity, but I think your edge is pretty small so you better be able to "outplay" these guys. I mean, notwithstanding your PF equity, you're not going to take king high to the river, so there are lots of ways for tricky players to screw you on the flop or turn.

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He does not often have a 4 here, as his play would have been different. He may have a 9, but that is not all that likely, as he would be more inclined to simply bet the river, and also he might have check raised the flop. He might have a better king that beats you, but again he probably would have played differently earlier. His play is consistant with 55-88 (not entirely 77 and 88), or an ace high, and very occasionally maybe TT. So most of the time he calls, I think you win more than 50%. Many times however, he will simply fold a hand that you would have beat if you checked, so there is no harm.

As for raising K7o preflop against unknowns. Lets just assume they are a fairly regular, decent player but a bit loose (if they are tighter, it would support raising more). Let's say they fold SB 70% of the time, and fold BB 50% of the time.

35% of the time they both fold and you win 1.5 SB
15% of the time they both call and you have an equity of 25%
15% of the time SB calls, but BB folds and you have an equity of 40%
35% of the time SB will fold, but BB calls and you have an equity of 45%

So when you are called, you have slight equity deficiencies, but not by too much. Not to mention you have the value of position and initiative, and will often win on the flop un improved. You probably lose a bit when they call, but the huge boost you get from when they call overcomes this. If opponents are super loose, you might not raise, but "unknowns" arn't typically super loose, and your raise will be correct.

[mperich]

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More to the point, why raise K7o against unknown blinds. You have better than random preflop equity, but I think your edge is pretty small so you better be able to "outplay" these guys. I mean, notwithstanding your PF equity, you're not going to take king high to the river, so there are lots of ways for tricky players to screw you on the flop or turn

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If you have preflop equity, and position, and the initiative, I can't see how you think that this hand is not a profitable steal. You say that you need to be able to outplay your opponents, but you should be able to do that postflop in general, and especially with position.

-Mike

[Nietzsche]

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Yeah, except any big ace, and pocket pair down to 77 would have three-bet preflop, so you cant exactly put them on those cards.

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Hm... I think you guys give this guy too much credit. An unknown who just calls a button raise in the SB with a 10/20 structure I tend to think it is highly likely I am up against a donk and therefore he will be difficult to put on a hand range.

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I check this river 100% of the time because there are two ways you've been outdrawn, and you're chopping with any king.

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Part of the reason I checked was that the kicker plays and mine sucks. As you mentioned I also didn't want to get blown off by a bluff (infrequent, but it happens). This might be A high but will how often will he get this far compared to hands that beat me.

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More to the point, why raise K7o against unknown blinds. You have better than random preflop equity, but I think your edge is pretty small so you better be able to "outplay" these guys. I mean, notwithstanding your PF equity, you're not going to take king high to the river, so there are lots of ways for tricky players to screw you on the flop or turn.

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There is more pressure for the blinds to hit than for me to hit. And I got decent showdown material the times it gets checked down after the flop bet.