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View Full Version : Are these both calls? Stars $55+5 turbo

housenuts
11-08-2005, 08:33 PM
these hands happened one right after the other. prior to this the big stack hadn't been wielding his stack around too much. also the other players were tight and i was able to steal blinds from them. so is it better to let these hands go and survive by stealing or make a stand?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

BB (t3660)
UTG (t2070)
Button (t5655)
Hero (t2115)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t5655</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Final Pot: t5730

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

SB (t3235)
BB (t2045)
UTG (t6330)
Hero (t1890)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t6330</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Final Pot: t6405
bawcerelli
11-08-2005, 08:40 PM
i think i let the first one go, and call the second one.

edit- i thought you were BB in this hand. you're the button. hmmm i don't know, it's close.
11-08-2005, 08:49 PM
fold the 88, but the aj is very close...villian's pushing range here is huge...i think you could call...but it would be very close....i think youll be ahead here more times than not....
11-08-2005, 09:00 PM
i think you pretty much have to call the second if you want a good chance of winning the tournament. first you would probably expect to be 50/50, but the second one i think you have to assume you are ahead for sure.
11-08-2005, 09:46 PM
My first instinct was to call the first hand and fold the second. But they're both probably folds if big stack is actually (semi-)tight.

The first gets past the break-even point somewhere around villain pushing top 40%. This doesn't take into account the possibility of someone behind you waking up with a monster, or when the blinds will next go up.

In the second, villain actually has to be pushing north of 80% to make calling a positive, and there's a better chance of someone behind you having something, or calling knowing that they only have to beat you.

You say big stack hasn't been using his stack, but then he raises here back-to-back, and if he thinks y'all are reasonably tight, he can profitably push any two. Even giving you some slack he can push top 35% or so in the first hand without much worry.

Blech. With him on your right if you're not going to have a chance to get first in much, you probably have to make a stand. I'd rather make it with 88 (and a few more chips) than AJo, but it ain't great either way.
11-08-2005, 09:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i think you pretty much have to call the second if you want a good chance of winning the tournament. first you would probably expect to be 50/50, but the second one i think you have to assume you are ahead for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm wondering about this. Are you going to be 80-20 or 70-30 enough with 88 to make up for the majority of the time you'll be 53-47 vs often being 60-40 with AJ, and occassionally 30-70 or ~45-55?

Guess it really depends on villain's range. If I give him a range of 22+, A2s+, A2o+, KTs+, KJo+, QJs, then AJo is worse (56-44) than 88 (58-42). And I think the looser villain gets, the better 88 fares from here (assuming that if he's playing more 8+ connectors he's also playing more Kx/Qx hands with x&lt;8).
bigt439
11-09-2005, 12:34 AM
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i think i let the first one go, and call the second one.

edit- i thought you were BB in this hand. you're the button. hmmm i don't know, it's close.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys have got it mixed up. The first one is maybe a marginal call, and the second one is a definite fold.
Scuba Chuck
11-09-2005, 02:21 AM
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i think i let the first one go, and call the second one.

edit- i thought you were BB in this hand. you're the button. hmmm i don't know, it's close.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys have got it mixed up. The first one is maybe a marginal call, and the second one is a definite fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is my read also.
splashpot
11-09-2005, 02:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think i let the first one go, and call the second one.

edit- i thought you were BB in this hand. you're the button. hmmm i don't know, it's close.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys have got it mixed up. The first one is maybe a marginal call, and the second one is a definite fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea. I like 88 a lot better than AJ.
Scuba Chuck
11-09-2005, 03:14 AM
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Yea. I like 88 a lot better than AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's actually not the point.
splashpot
11-09-2005, 03:20 AM
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[ QUOTE ]

Yea. I like 88 a lot better than AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's actually not the point.

[/ QUOTE ]
I meant I like the 88 hand better. Mainly because the push is coming from the Button this time.
Scuba Chuck
11-09-2005, 03:22 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yea. I like 88 a lot better than AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's actually not the point.

[/ QUOTE ]
I meant I like the 88 hand better. Mainly because the push is coming from the Button this time.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's still not the point.
splashpot
11-09-2005, 03:23 AM
Then enlighten me. The hands are essentially the same otherwise. At least from what I'm seeing.