It simply doesn't get any dumber than this (NC)

Last nights Party $20K freeroll...

3500 entrants. Pays top 220. I finish...221. Now I know what it feels like to finish on the bubble in an MTT, and let me tell you, it BLOWS.

If I finish 220 I only get $14, but still. It took 3 hours and 10 minutes to get that far.

And what's worse is I had an above-average chipstack at the time!

I had 15K (average ~11k if i remember correctly). I get dealt AK off in MP. Folds around to me. Blinds are 500/1000. Guy in BB has about 35K. I limp. (I know big mistake). Table was playing so tight right now that I figured one of the big stacks in the blinds would try to raise me out PF with an inferior hand (they had been doing this to people).

Folds around to BB who makes it 5K to go. I assume he's trying to bully me out knowing we're 1 away from money and if I play this hand, all my money will get in.

So my first thought is "I'm reraising all in preflop. I've got him beat.". My second thought was "Stall. I will be putting all my chips at risk on this hand and so I need to go as slow as possible in the event he calls AND I lose."

So I let the timer run all the way down and even used my time bank all the way down to 1 and pushed all in for 15K. At that moment I went to type in "If you are going to call, please stall for me.", since our table was very friendly. But before I could he called and flipped QQ.

Community cards fly by, I don't improve, and am out 221st!

GROAN! There are so many things I did wrong here. I'm so disappointed in myself. The payout structure was really flat for 181-220 all only making $14. My strategy was to "eek into the money, then be ULTRA ULTRA agressive". And I Eff it up! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I let my poker instincts get the best of me and I figured he maybe had AJ or something and that I could possibly double up to 30K and ride the wave longer.

What I COULD have done, to save time, was just called him 5K raise PF, and then took forever to act on the flop. This would buy me a bit more time. Since I pushed all in PF, he instacalled and the 5 cards flew by. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

I felt like I got stabbed in the stomach.

Oh well, thank god it was a freeroll and not the WSOP or something. I'd even told a girl at our table that I better not get KK vs. AA on the bubble! How prophetic of me. And pathetic.

The $14 means nothing to my bankroll, but the 3 hours (11pm-2am) really hurt me. Plus the fact that I could have folded into the money and taken big risks and possibly accumulated several chips. All in all it was one of the best MTT's I've played. And I havent played an MTT in about 2 months.

Sorry if this belongs in some NC thread. Delete or lock if you want, but I have to vent and warn others not to do something THIS STUPID on the bubble of an MTT. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Bigdaddydvo]

Stressing this much over missing $14 is really bad IMO.

The bubble is where you can make aggressive plays to build up your stack (from frady cats like yourself). What counts is getting to the final table where the real $$$$ is. Bubbling every time + one MTT win >>>>>>> locking up the $14 every time but not getting much further.

Don't beat yourself up... the play goes down the exact same way if the BB has AQ, AJ, so-on.

In that case you double up and feel really good about moving into some descent money.

if your still bumbed out... I'll send you some free movie tickets worth $14.00

[twang]

Uh, I don't know. I think getting a chance to double up your above average stack vs bigstacks' anytwo is a way better deal than folding into the money, planning to go berserk when there.

But, yeah, losing those hours is not fun.

[nath]

Results oriented. the BUBBLE is the time to play ultra aggressively, not immediately afterward.
Besides, what's $14? Play for the big prize and you'll get it.

i think a lot of people play these while playing their regular cash games or sng sets for exactly this reason. playing 3+ hours for an hourly rate of less than $5 is pretty equivalent to $0 imo.

dont' collude. Btw, thats not even a bad beat story. its just a story.

[Beavis68]

no, it is a bad story

be glad you didnt get banned too.

[Skjonne]

Thanks for sharing. I just love it when a staller bubbles

[loffe]

So you where stalling while playing hand-by-hand.............?

Then the subject title is actually true........ /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[charlieD]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for sharing. I just love it when a staller bubbles

[/ QUOTE ]

nothing worse than stallers on party in a freeroll

[ansky451]

OH MY GOD I AM SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW.

You:

1) suck at MTTs, if you are stalling on the bubble
2) suck at MTTs, if you try too eek into the money
3) suck at MTTs, if you open limp AKo in MP on the bubble
4) suck at poker etiquitte, if you ask someone to stall for you. If it were live poker, and you said that to me, I would throw my chair at your face.

Players like you are the reason I can triple up on the bubble without a showdown.

Players like you are also the reason I write support multiple emails complaining about stallers.

Congratulations, you have sufficiently embarressed yourself, and identified yourself as a donkey with this post. Your goal in MTTs should be to win, you freakin pansy.

[Skjonne]

[ QUOTE ]
OH MY GOD I AM SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW.

You:

1) suck at MTTs, if you are stalling on the bubble
2) suck at MTTs, if you try too eek into the money
3) suck at MTTs, if you open limp AKo in MP on the bubble
4) suck at poker etiquitte, if you ask someone to stall for you. If it were live poker, and you said that to me, I would throw my chair at your face.

Players like you are the reason I can triple up on the bubble without a showdown.

Players like you are also the reason I write support multiple emails complaining about stallers.

Congratulations, you have sufficiently embarressed yourself, and identified yourself as a donkey with this post. Your goal in MTTs should be to win, you freakin pansy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, having a bad hair day ansky? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Not that I disagree with you one tiny bit

You didn't do anything wrong....except stall on the bubble. /images/graemlins/mad.gif
I'm an expert at going out on the bubble, but not wanting the poxy post bubble prizes means when I do cash I get something worth my time and effort.

[ansky451]

I have a personal vendetta against stalling. It is about as far from my entire way of playing tournament poker is it can be.

[odiggity]

can someone explain to me how to quote...anyway...
excellent point..hand for hand and stalling...lol
ur plan was to limp with Ak and punish a blind that u thought was going to try and raise u out of the pot...ur plan worked and u cry...btw bubble and $14 r the same IMO

[Skjonne]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a personal vendetta against stalling. It is about as far from my entire way of playing tournament poker is it can be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I understand you 100%. Actually I played a $10R on Paradise some nights ago and several people stalled to the max on the bubble. I explained to them, begged them, yelled at them and called them names but to no avail. I guess it's just much to demand that people who has no clue of how to play poker should be able to get the complex logic of HbH /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[ansky451]

[ QUOTE ]
Table was playing so tight right now that I figured one of the big stacks in the blinds would try to raise me out PF with an inferior hand

[/ QUOTE ]


UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

IF THEY ARE RAISING WITH INFERIOR HANDS, THEN THEY ARENT PLAYING TIGHT.

[ QUOTE ]
dont' collude. Btw, thats not even a bad beat story. its just a story.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said anything about a bad beat, sir.

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for sharing. I just love it when a staller bubbles

[/ QUOTE ]

I was not STALLING AT ALL! I had an above average chipstack sir!

Only when I got dealt AK and had the BB raise with what could have been any two cards, and realized that I was going to put all my chips at risk did I begin to stall (knowing that there were EXACTLY 221 players left, and hoping that some shmuck busted out in the bb before my hand ended)!

Some guy who had 3 chips left for the whole last orbit eeked into the money and his table all stalled for him.

[Chief911]

Someone is going for worst post of the month.

I particularly liked this little nugget:

[ QUOTE ]
Oh well, thank god it was a freeroll and not the WSOP or something. I'd even told a girl at our table that I better not get KK vs. AA on the bubble! How prophetic of me. And pathetic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for sharing. I just love it when a staller bubbles

[/ QUOTE ]

nothing worse than stallers on party in a freeroll

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm NOT A STALLER fool. Give me a break. I had outlasted almost 3300 players and was above-average. I'm very good at MTT's (even though I never ever play them b/c of variance). Please do not liken me to a staller. This was the only hand I stalled on b/c I knew they were all going into the center. Stalling 1 hand when you are putting all your chips at risk doesn't really make you a typical "staller".

Stallers would not push all in against a deeper stack with AK preflop when sitting above-average.

[illegit]

[ QUOTE ]
I felt like I got stabbed in the stomach.

Oh well, thank god it was a freeroll and not the WSOP or something. I'd even told a girl at our table that I better not get KK vs. AA on the bubble! How prophetic of me. And pathetic.


[/ QUOTE ]
ROFL

[ QUOTE ]
OH MY GOD I AM SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW.

You:

1) suck at MTTs, if you are stalling on the bubble
2) suck at MTTs, if you try too eek into the money
3) suck at MTTs, if you open limp AKo in MP on the bubble
4) suck at poker etiquitte, if you ask someone to stall for you. If it were live poker, and you said that to me, I would throw my chair at your face.

Players like you are the reason I can triple up on the bubble without a showdown.

Players like you are also the reason I write support multiple emails complaining about stallers.

Congratulations, you have sufficiently embarressed yourself, and identified yourself as a donkey with this post. Your goal in MTTs should be to win, you freakin pansy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice assumptions. You know nothing about my MTT play.

Limping with AK there is an attempt to have one of the large stacks raise me out with an inferior hand. It happened, but it just so happened that he had a better hand.
But feel good about yourself b/c after me discussing ONE HAND you have identified me as a stalling donk who knows nothing about MTT's.

LOL. I hadn't played an MTT in over 2 months prior to this. And still finished top ~7%

You would throw a chair at my face? lol. Go ahead. And get kicked out. This table we were playing on was very friendly and had I asked the guy before he called to stall he very well may have for me. He should respect a guy putting all his chips at risk on the bubble.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Table was playing so tight right now that I figured one of the big stacks in the blinds would try to raise me out PF with an inferior hand

[/ QUOTE ]


UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

IF THEY ARE RAISING WITH INFERIOR HANDS, THEN THEY ARENT PLAYING TIGHT.

[/ QUOTE ]

The LARGE STACKS were raising out fool. Everyone else would at best limp and fold. Have you ever even played an MTT? hahaha. The BB had 35K (over 3 times average) and I was almost certain he'd raise me out.

Please, go watch the WSOP reruns. That is REAL poker. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Skjonne]

[ QUOTE ]
My strategy was to eek into the money

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd even told a girl at our table that I better not get KK vs. AA on the bubble

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I get dealt AK off in MP. I limp

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I let the timer run all the way down and even used my time bank all the way down to 1

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm very good at MTT's

[/ QUOTE ]

No Sir. You're not

You always always always always always push with AK pf. You average 1.2 BB with a push but only .4 BB when you limp. Don't make me regurgitate the math.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My strategy was to eek into the money

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd even told a girl at our table that I better not get KK vs. AA on the bubble

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I get dealt AK off in MP. I limp

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I let the timer run all the way down and even used my time bank all the way down to 1

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm very good at MTT's

[/ QUOTE ]

No Sir. You're not

[/ QUOTE ]

You cut off my first sentence. I said eek into the money THEN PLAY REALLY AGRESSIVE, due to the ridiculously flat payout which was 181-220 each receiving the same amount. In fact, you had to finish top 60 just to win in excess of $50. Any finish short of top 60 for me would be considered "meh" for my bankroll. You don't eek into money by having an above-average chipstack with 7% of the field remaining. Do you work for the Daily Show or something?

Yes, I said I better not get KK vs. AA on the bubble... who wouldn't say this? Wouldn't affect my propensity to push all chips forward with KK. What's your point?

I limped with AK for strategic purposes. Learn what those are then come back to me. Hint: I've already stated what it is in another post! Go find it! Go on, boy! Get it! Get it!

Yes. I stalled on one hand. Big effin deal. A hand that I had the balls to push all I had into the center with what was likely way ahead. I bet 99.9% of you would have done the exact same thing in my spot. No, I take it back, 85% of you probably would have folded AK preflop. the other 14.9% would have got all their money in and stalled. .1% would have been too dumb to notice that they were on the bubble.

MTT's are SIMPLE. What is so hard about them? After 5-tabling limit holdem, this tournament was like stealing candy from a baby. This all happened after a big fight I had with my GF earlier as well. And I still held it together to play well. You probably would have been eating ice cream and watching Fried Green Tomatoes after my day.

[ansky451]

[ QUOTE ]

Please, go watch the WSOP reruns. That is REAL poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope thats a joke.

[ansky451]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL. I hadn't played an MTT in over 2 months prior to this. And still finished top ~7%

[/ QUOTE ]

WOW. NICE SAMPLE SIZE.

You said you are trying to eek into the money, thats all I need to hear. That makes me think you are not a "very good MTTer."

[ansky451]

[ QUOTE ]
I said eek into the money THEN PLAY REALLY AGRESSIVE

[/ QUOTE ]



THATS NOT HOW YOU OWN THE BUBBLE.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Please, go watch the WSOP reruns. That is REAL poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope thats a joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are this bad at reading people online then there is no way you are a quality online MTT player.

Have a nice day.

K's Deal

[illegit]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet 99.9% of you would have done the exact same thing in my spot. No, I take it back, 85% of you probably would have folded AK preflop. the other 14.9% would have got all their money in and stalled. .1% would have been too dumb to notice that they were on the bubble.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's getting worse with every sentence you type. Just stop. 100% of any decent players here would not have thought twice about the bubble and would have been correct to not think about it. And they would either open push, or at least raise.

ROFL @ 85% would fold AK preflop. Are you serious? I mean.. seriously, let's start a poll and ask who would open-fold AK in this spot. My estimate is that it would be between 0 and 5%.

dumb question, but doesn't asking to stall just scream out " I HAVE A WEAK HAND AND I DONT WANT TO BUST!!!"....i would call in an instant with any pair , and send you on your merry way...play to win, not to win pennies.

[Skjonne]

[ QUOTE ]
fool

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you work for the Daily Show or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Go on, boy!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You probably would have been eating ice cream and watching Fried Green Tomatoes after my day

[/ QUOTE ]


OK buddy, stop it now!!

You post a stupid hand and lots of people comment on it (all basically saying the same thing) whereupon you just keep getting more and more of an [censored].

Everybody is telling you that you've missed several important points and you just scream louder and louder like a little baby.

When you start calling people names, it's just too much.

Please go away and never come back

[ QUOTE ]
You cut off my first sentence. I said eek into the money THEN PLAY REALLY AGRESSIVE......Any finish short of top 60 for me would be considered "meh" for my bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's so many things in your post that doesn't make sense, but this one is just too far out. You try to eek into the money although the money means "meh" to you?

[ansky451]

You're right. Someones ability to gauge sarcasm in an online forum when talking to some random tool who is defending his horrific play, is clearly an indicator of tournament poker ability.

You keep saying I probably suck, but I'm not going to engage in an e-penis waving thread ("whats the most you have won huh?").

[Skjonne]

[ QUOTE ]
("whats the most you have won huh?").

[/ QUOTE ]

If it wasn't for an incredible bad beat, it would've been $14

[betgo]

1. I can tell you are a freeeroll player.

2. Stalling is pretty stupid except maybe in a supersatellite.

3. Stalling when playing hand for hand is really stupid.

4. I know you weren't stalling in general, but it doesn't matter.

5. In this situation playing AK for a limpraise is a good play. I don't agree with those saying always raise with AK.

6. With AK and QQ this short stacked, all the money is going in preflop however it is played unless someone is weak/tight.

7. What is the big deal about $14?

8. Sometimes there is some value in cashing if you are very short stacked, but most good players and pros try to accumulate chips on the bubble regardless.

9. For example, I was playing in the Pardise Masters and I had 6xBB. There were 20 players left to the cash and I could easily fold my way in to the minimum $1400. Loose aggressive player in CO raises. I move allin with 66 and lose to A8s. Should I kick myself for making the play? Yeh, I missed out on the cash, but I gave myself a shot at the first prize of $500K.

[ QUOTE ]
5. In this situation playing AK for a limpraise is a good play. I don't agree with those saying always raise with AK.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're only 31% to hit A or K on flop. Push it.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
5. In this situation playing AK for a limpraise is a good play. I don't agree with those saying always raise with AK.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're only 31% to hit A or K on flop. Push it.

[/ QUOTE ]


Are you saying to open push for 15xBB or standard raise. I think the limpraise (representing AA)is a really good play with aggressive big stacks on the bubble. Someone may raise to 4-5xBB with nothing and fold to a push or you may get allin against Ax or Kx. If you have to play a limped pot, it is not a total disaster.

[ClaytonN]

There is no excuse for stalling. Ever.

Quite frankly, you deserve every single flame you're getting right now.

[Kirkrrr]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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5. In this situation playing AK for a limpraise is a good play. I don't agree with those saying always raise with AK.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You're only 31% to hit A or K on flop. Push it.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf... that makes no difference whatsoever. He limps/aggressive bigstack raises/he comes over the top all-in. Do you see why the percentage of his hitting his cards on the flop is totally irrelevant to this discussion and limp/raising is not a bad play?

Actually, that's the only part of his post I did like.

Kirk

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. In this situation playing AK for a limpraise is a good play. I don't agree with those saying always raise with AK.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You're only 31% to hit A or K on flop. Push it.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf... that makes no difference whatsoever. He limps/aggressive bigstack raises/he comes over the top all-in. Do you see why the percentage of his hitting his cards on the flop is totally irrelevant to this discussion and limp/raising is not a bad play?

Actually, that's the only part of his post I did like.

Kirk

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has zero FE against big stack, then limp. If he has FE, then first action is to push. You don't want to limp/push because then bigstack is potcommited and you're just 43% to hit A or K by river. The whole reason that pushing with AK (if you're first to act) is profitable is because of the extra BB you get from FE.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. In this situation playing AK for a limpraise is a good play. I don't agree with those saying always raise with AK.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You're only 31% to hit A or K on flop. Push it.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf... that makes no difference whatsoever. He limps/aggressive bigstack raises/he comes over the top all-in. Do you see why the percentage of his hitting his cards on the flop is totally irrelevant to this discussion and limp/raising is not a bad play?

Actually, that's the only part of his post I did like.

Kirk

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has zero FE against big stack, then limp. If he has FE, then first action is to push. You don't want to limp/push because then bigstack is potcommited and you're just 43% to hit A or K by river. The whole reason that pushing with AK (if you're first to act) is profitable is because of the extra BB you get from FE.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you push, you probably pick up 1.5xBB. If you play for a limpraise, you are likely to pick up 6xBB or 16.5xBB.

Why not trap big stacks trying to steal on the bubble. This seems like a subtler approach than open psuhing for 10xpot.