$11 Bubble Call (Flush draw, overcards, gutshot draw)

Hey everyone,

First, I just want to say how helpful you guys have been in my past posts and how helpful it is to read through other posts. This is a great place for a beginner.

Couple questions on this hand:
(PS $11), on the bubble, 75/150 blinds, BB.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

SB (t1325)
Hero (t3580)
UTG (t5935)
Button (t2660)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls t150, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t450) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t300</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t1175</font>, Hero calls t875.

This one was a tricky situation... I have a flush draw, gutshot straight draw, and two overcards on the bubble (with a stack that could survive). Basically, I have two questions:

1) The flop bet. Is it worth leading out here three-handed? If so, how's the size of that bet?

2a) The call. After my flop bet, I'm getting 2.2:1 on the call. With the diamonds, the 8s, and Js and Ts, I have 18 outs (9 diamonds, 3 non-diamond eights, 3 Js, 3Ts), assuming that SB isn't also drawing.

2b) SB completed the blinds and checked the flop. Assuming he made a set, of course my Js and Ts are no longer outs, leaving me still with 12, again assuming SB isn't drawing similarly (to a higher flush).

How do you all evaluate this play?

Any comments welcomes as always...thanks again.

[tigerite]

I think it's fine because you have him covered by 2k chips. It doesn't really hurt you that much to lose, and winning puts you in a very strong position ITM, as the new big stack.

[Gar Pike]

"Assuming he made a set or has an overpair , of course my Js and Ts are no longer outs, leaving me still with 12"

FYP

I would expect to see AA-KK playing passively PF and on flop, as a trap.

You're behind on pot odds with 12 outs.

But, as was noted, you're way ahead on chips, and losing won't kill you.

Winning, while it won't make you the big stack, will still put the fear into your opponents.

So will losing, for that matter...

I think there's nothing wrong with a call here, but I wouldn't make if the stack sizes were reversed.

Regards

Gar

[Jason Strasser]

Looks perfect to me. Stacks are too shallow imo to check raise, so I like the bet-call line here a lot.

-Jason

[durron597]

This hand would be a lot more interesting if UTG was the player who made the raise.

I do not like risking all my chips with just a draw. I am happy to outplay the other player later in the game. This is how I played the $10 games before I moved to the $20 games.

[pooh74]

Good post! Welcome. I think you played it fine.

[ QUOTE ]
I do not like risking all my chips with just a draw. I am happy to outplay the other player later in the game. This is how I played the $10 games before I moved to the $20 games.

[/ QUOTE ]But, you're not risking all your chips.

I'm happy to outplay my opponents later in the game, too. (Thrilled, actually, I often can't manage to outplay them...) But, that doesn't mean I want to pass up opportunities to outplay them on the current hand.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not like risking all my chips with just a draw. I am happy to outplay the other player later in the game. This is how I played the $10 games before I moved to the $20 games.

[/ QUOTE ]

please stop mentioning moving up to the $20 games in every other post.

c

Thanks everyone for all the comments.

Durron (and everyone else) -- Hypothetically speaking, if UTG had made the raise, what range of hands do you then put him on? With his PF call, flop check, and stack size (5900 to my 3600)... is that still a call then?

I don't think I'm going to put all my chips in the middle for a draw (even with that many outs) on the bubble. Thoughts?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks everyone for all the comments.

Durron (and everyone else) -- Hypothetically speaking, if UTG had made the raise, what range of hands do you then put him on? With his PF call, flop check, and stack size (5900 to my 3600)... is that still a call then?

I don't think I'm going to put all my chips in the middle for a draw (even with that many outs) on the bubble. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

He has position on you, he didn't check-raise you.

I think the possibility of UTG raising behind makes me want to check this flop. Once you've bet, calling a push from the SB is easy. Much harder if UTG comes over the top.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do not like risking all my chips with just a draw. I am happy to outplay the other player later in the game. This is how I played the $10 games before I moved to the $20 games.

[/ QUOTE ]

please stop mentioning moving up to the $20 games in every other post.

c

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sorry. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[jedinite]

On the original quesiton, I think this is an instacall.

Regarding your preflop line, is UTG limping a ton (i.e. almost every hand) with the big stack? Has he responded to anyone coming over the top yet?

This is one of my favorite places to come over the top from the BB, with a huge stack just limping in with a ridiculously wide range and the small blind as a small stack completing for likely pot odds only. Its almost always free money.

Assuming UTG is in fact limping almost every hand, he folds and worst case scenario you're heads up against the small stack where (as others have pointed out) you can afford to lose and still have quite a decent stack.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks everyone for all the comments.

Durron (and everyone else) -- Hypothetically speaking, if UTG had made the raise, what range of hands do you then put him on? With his PF call, flop check, and stack size (5900 to my 3600)... is that still a call then?

I don't think I'm going to put all my chips in the middle for a draw (even with that many outs) on the bubble. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

If UTG made the raise, I'd put him squarely on AA or KK. I don't think any other hands try to limp trap like that on the bubble.

[jedinite]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think any other hands try to limp trap like that on the bubble.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the $11's?

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think any other hands try to limp trap like that on the bubble.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the $11's?

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand corrected. You'll get all sorts of crap limp/trapping here, but I think there's no need in risking your stack against someone who thinks they're playing tricky and likes their hand.