should wins be relevant in Cy Young?

[chessforlife]

i really dont think wins should be relevant in the cy youung.

as a matter of fact, can someone make this into a poll? (my mac is not able to poll for some reason.)

[kyro]

You know what's funny. I was thinking the EXACT opposite of you, but your detailed analysis swayed me. I agree. Wins shouldn't be relevant.

[Hornacek]

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You know what's funny. I was thinking the EXACT opposite of you, but your detailed analysis swayed me. I agree. Wins shouldn't be relevant.

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nh sir.

To the OP: nice argument. Especially when Cy Young holds the MLB record (and quite possibly, the record less likely to be EVER broken in any sport) of 500+ wins. And this will be even more relevant when Carpenter beats Clemens tomorrow for the NL Cy Young.

[Paluka]

I think wins should be a factor. If I'm really not sure who pitched better this year, I'll give it to the guy with more wins. This year, I did not think it was close. Johan Santana just pitched better.

[imported_The Vibesman]

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Especially when Cy Young holds the MLB record (and quite possibly, the record less likely to be EVER broken in any sport) of 500+ wins.

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Young also holds the MLB record for most losses as well. Should a high loss count also be a requirement for the Cy Young award winner? *edit - haha jesusarenque, beat ya to it.*

I agree with Paluka, they're not totally irrelevant, but they are near the bottom of the list in terms of importance. Wins can so much be a function of other things. Santana was obviously the better pitcher this year, and it wasn't close.

That said, the voters have a history of ignorance when it comes to this award, this year only adds to that.

[jesusarenque]

I think the pitcher with the most losses each year should win the Cy Young award. After all, Cy Young has the most losses ever.

[Hornacek]

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I think the pitcher with the most losses each year should win the Cy Young award. After all, Cy Young has the most losses ever.

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Quite possibly another unbreakable record, unless its Lima Time! for another 10 years or so?

[Jorge10]

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I think the pitcher with the most losses each year should win the Cy Young award. After all, Cy Young has the most losses ever.

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Quite possibly another unbreakable record, unless its Lima Time! for another 10 years or so?

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NH!

[RacersEdge]

Wins are probably the worst stat there is in baseball for judging a player. Wins are affected by the pitcher's offense and his bullpen - 2 things he can't control.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

Of course wins are irrelevant-there are many stats that give a far better sense for how a pitcher pitched: K/BB ratio, DIPS, WHIP, ERA, etc.
Chan Ho Park was at one point 6-1 with a 5+ ERA. Kevin Brown a few years ago for the Dodgers went barely .500 with an ERA of a little over 2. Clearly you can pitch terribly and get wins and pitch well and get losses and there's a risk that the discrepancy will be huge so I just don't think wins matter.

[CCass]

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You know what's funny. I was thinking the EXACT opposite of you, but your detailed analysis swayed me. I agree. Wins shouldn't be relevant.

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nh sir.

To the OP: nice argument. Especially when Cy Young holds the MLB record (and quite possibly, the record less likely to be EVER broken in any sport) of 500+ wins. And this will be even more relevant when Carpenter beats Clemens tomorrow for the NL Cy Young.

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I am not sure that Clemons finishes in the top 2. If I were voting, Clemons would be 3rd on my ballot behind Carpenter and Willis. And I think you could argue that Willis deserves it.

[andyfox]

I dunno. Cy Young had the most wins; Walter Johnson is second; then come Grover Cleveland Alexander, Christy Mathewson, and Warren Spahn.

Active pitchers: Clemens has the most, Greg Maddux is second, then comes Randy Johnson.

I'll take any of those guys. Great pitchers win a lot of games.

[Soul Daddy]

Of course they should be relevant. They are not the primary statistic that should be examined, or even close to the top, but they certainly should be part of the picture.

[UCF THAYER]

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I dunno. Cy Young had the most wins; Walter Johnson is second; then come Grover Cleveland Alexander, Christy Mathewson, and Warren Spahn.

Active pitchers: Clemens has the most, Greg Maddux is second, then comes Randy Johnson.

I'll take any of those guys. Great pitchers win a lot of games.

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This is true, but that doesn't mean in a single season, a person with alot of wins is a great pitcher.

[lastchance]

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I dunno. Cy Young had the most wins; Walter Johnson is second; then come Grover Cleveland Alexander, Christy Mathewson, and Warren Spahn.

Active pitchers: Clemens has the most, Greg Maddux is second, then comes Randy Johnson.

I'll take any of those guys. Great pitchers win a lot of games.

[/ QUOTE ]
Great Pitchers also pitch a lot of innings, and great Pitchers also pitch low ERA's, K/BB's, and WHIP's.

[andyfox]

I agree. The question, though, was whether wins are relevant or not.

[andyfox]

Usually a lot of wins is a sign of a very good pitcher. I'm not saying that wins are the most important stat, nor that Colon deserved the award, just that wins should be considered as part of the mix.

[Jack of Arcades]

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Usually a lot of wins is a sign of a very good pitcher. I'm not saying that wins are the most important stat, nor that Colon deserved the award, just that wins should be considered as part of the mix.

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Even in the long run, things don't even out. Bert Blyleven continues to get the shaft because he racked up over 150 NDs and 250 losses playing for teams with no offenses.

[andyfox]

Still, he won 287. My guess is he gets the shaft because he never won more than 20 games, he won 20 just once, he played for non-marquee teams, and he wasn't a post-season star. See Catfish Hunter for the counter-example.

[Jack of Arcades]

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Still, he won 287. My guess is he gets the shaft because he never won more than 20 games, he won 20 just once, he played for non-marquee teams, and he wasn't a post-season star. See Catfish Hunter for the counter-example.

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Of course that's part of it, but if he'd won 13 more games in his nearly 20-year career, he'd be in the hall by now. It's ridiculous.

[reo]

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i really dont think wins should be relevant in the cy youung.

as a matter of fact, can someone make this into a poll? (my mac is not able to poll for some reason.)

[/ QUOTE ]

No they shouldn't.