AKo button

[baronzeus]

6 handed 75/150

folded to me on button, i raise AsKh, loose and aggressive CO 3bets (range is huge since my button range is huge), TAG (22/15 or so 6 handed) caps in the BB. 3 to the flop for 12SB.
I think SB will lead any pair here or draw here, and BB will probably raise 88+ or any K or a good draw. SB will probably 3bet a good draw here, and would probably fold a weak pair if i 3bet.


flop Ks7s4c

SB bets, BB raises, I coldcall...


Anyone like? Other options? What's my plan in the different scenarios?

[ArturiusX]

Fold.











Just kidding. Hmm, the cold call looks awful suspicious, but there's a good chance the sb is folding if we raise. I think I like the cold call. Interesting to see what else happens.

[angst]

Damn you are advancing. I remember you posting $3/$6 hands like yesterday.

[brazilio]

I don't see how you're going to get any more money out of an underpair to your Kings, although depending on how shitty your image is you're pretty much announcing you've got a K or the spade draw. If you 3-bet the BB has to drop his pocket pair, but I don't think that matters one way or the other. I think our concern is the SB, and I'd want to wait until the turn here.

[Petteri]

3-betting is good option. Pot is large and you have good hand. You should not slowplay, but protect your hand. 3-betting will probably force SB out of the pot if he has only medium pair.

Looks very good. I'm pretty sure raising any of BB's bets from here on (3-way with BB having initiative) isn't a good idea...barring some backdoor spades or an A or K on the turn.

The times we're behind to BB's AA or KK, we go for less. The times we're tied with the BB, we are able to extract from the SB, and the times we're ahead, we still get bets in on every street without folding the SB's losing hands out. Also, we'll obviously be betting if checked to us. (Sort of like a WA/WB situation)

One thing I disagree with...

[ QUOTE ]
I think SB will lead any pair here or draw here, and BB will probably raise 88+ or any K or a good draw

[/ QUOTE ]
Based on BB's stats, there should be no way for him to have any king unless he's chopping with you.

There's an outside chance that SB has a set, but other than that, I can't see him being ahead of you. Also, I can't see raising at all this hand unless SB folds and you find yourself HU with the BB. Even at that, raising the river would probably be the best play.

[Danenania]

I would 3-bet for a few reasons.

A.) By calling you are giving SB adequate odds to call and spike a set with 88-QQ. The pot is big enough that you actually want him to fold these hands (however if he'd like to call 2 bets with them that's fine too).

B.) By the same token if SB has KQ or AK or perhaps a flush draw or will overplay a lesser hand you want to give him a chance to cap it up to force BB to drop 88-QQ.

C.) Having the As helps your equity a lot. You are free-rolling against another AK and have a couple extra effective outs against better hands, plus a redraw against a turned flush. Your equity is likely to get worse on the turn, not improve.

[ALL1N]

I don't think letting either player draw to a set for 1SB here is much of a problem at all. If we lose the pot due to him spiking, it'll probably be the 8.5 BBs on the flop plus a further 3-4 BB. 22:1 is what he needs, but we aren't winning this whole pot the whole time anyway.

If we coldcall the flop, and the SB calls, we can coldcall again on the turn to try and keep him in.

Oh, and
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Your equity is likely to get worse on the turn, not improve.

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But when it improves, it's by a greater magnitude! It all comes out in the wash /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Wynton]

Might 3-betting actually suggest that you do not have a K? In other words, wouldn't an opponent assume that, if you had QQ or worse, you'd take a wa/wb line?

[einbert]

I like three-betting for all the reasons Dane stated.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]

A.) By calling you are giving SB adequate odds to call and spike a set with 88-QQ. The pot is big enough that you actually want him to fold these hands (however if he'd like to call 2 bets with them that's fine too).

[/ QUOTE ]

There is also a chance that he (since he is a LAG) calls me down very lightly. By raising, i take away his chance to mak mistakes on the big streets by letting him make the correct play on the flop. I'd say if I just cold call, barring the other action, he will call me down with A7, 88+, or any king.

[ QUOTE ]

B.) By the same token if SB has KQ or AK or perhaps a flush draw or will overplay a lesser hand you want to give him a chance to cap it up to force BB to drop 88-QQ.


[/ QUOTE ]
if they aren't folding these hands on the turn, why do i want them to fold them on the flop?

[ QUOTE ]

Your equity is likely to get worse on the turn, not improve.

[/ QUOTE ]
What hand ranges make you say this? The only player who might have a flush draw is SB, and with As and Ks out of commission, it is less likely than his pair hands.



Anyhow, I'm deciding whether it's worth it to give up a little bit on the flop to gain on the turn, especially considering I have no idea what the turn card is.

[baronzeus]

it seems like pretty much everyone likes 3betting here. im gonna have to think about why and analyze the play a bit more before i make up my mind.

Anyhow, the rest of the hand was pretty standard and boring.

Flop: I coldcall, SB calls.

Turn: blank, SB checks, BB checks, I bet, both call

River: blank, SB checks, BB checks, I bet, SB calls, BB folds. SB shows A7o. MHIG

[bugstud]

I think the hand was well played

[Danenania]

Actually I changed my mind. I think I overestimated the true odds they're getting with PP's. And your point about getting them to make a big mistake on the turn is a good one. So... well played.

[smartalecc5]

[ QUOTE ]
Damn you are advancing. I remember you posting $3/$6 hands like yesterday.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding, why aren't I playing 75/150 now???

[TStoneMBD]

hi dane, dont mean to make you look bad but some of your logic is flawed here as some have pointed out.

B: you dont want the BB folding 88-QQ when he is facing 2 more bets, you want him to pay those 2 bets. because of this it is better to let the SB raise the 2bets and let you cap so that you force the BB into making the error rather than letting him make the correct play.

C: as pointed out your equity on the turn isnt likely to decrease it remains neutral on average. if you raise the turn when you spike your suit your equity gained is the same as always reraising this flop. if you want to take this arguement one step further you could say that if you raise now you are increasing your equity against another AK when he reraises the flop and you raise the turn. by raising the turn instead of the flop it is equivalent to x where x = the equity of your backdoor flush draw. if you raise, get 3bet and raise the turn x then becomes 3x. regardless, x is so small that its really not even worth discussing it if you ask me.

[Danenania]

For B I meant we'd rather he fold for one bet, not two. In C it's definitely more complex then I made it out to be...didn't think it through too well.

Don't worry about making me look bad. Giant fistfuls of cash will dry my tears.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't worry about making me look bad. Giant fistfuls of cash will dry my tears.

[/ QUOTE ]

come on, you know this isnt a good attitude /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

unless you were joking. /images/graemlins/wink.gif then its a good attitude.

[oreogod]

Intresting situation. A cold call is alright but Id expect BB to shut down on the turn unless he has AA-KK, AK, KQ (if hes a decent or observant tag player)...sb is likely to call u down regardless (EDITED: I thought SB was LAGish, I think I mixed sentences up in which case a cold call is probably a little better. If they are good players, or somewhat decent, this is just one of those situations where regardless of what u do they are going to shut down, unless they have a K or better...but u are more likely to get bets out of 1 or both of them by CCing then three betting)

I dont mind either way I think it is going to be played well whether u threebet the flop or CC it.

[Danenania]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't worry about making me look bad. Giant fistfuls of cash will dry my tears.

[/ QUOTE ]

come on, you know this isnt a good attitude /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

unless you were joking. /images/graemlins/wink.gif then its a good attitude.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm joking pretty much anytime I say something serious.