progress after 2 weeks... still a long way to go... help?

[bholdr]

A couple of weeks ago, i made this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Board=tourn&Number=3710501& Searchpage=1&Main=3710501&Words=+bholdr&topic=&Sea rch=true#Post3710501) post, basicly introducing myself to the MTT board and asking for some noobish advice. I knew just about dick about tournament strategy. Since then, I've played a few dozen tournaments, and have had some pretty good (though, i'm sure, statisticly insignifigant) results: I've been sticking to $20 and $30s, almost exclusivly NLHE. I feel that i will learn the basics faster by focusing on one game.

In about 30 tournaments entered, i've cashed in 8 with buy-ins of $20 or more: a 2nd out of 180, a half dozen small cashes, and, today, finished 9th out of 550 in a stars $20... so far, i'm in the black by about 20 buy-ins... an encouraging start.

There are, however, a few things that i'm just now starting to realize i know little or nothing about, and i'm sure, some things that i haven't even considered yet.

...and that's what i'm after here: The stuff that i should be considering as i continue my tournamnet education. I'd really appreciate it if some more seasoned posters would share their experience, especially the things i may not think about or realize on my own...

so, i guess the question is:

As a progressing player that has learned the fundamentals of tournament NL play, what is now most important to focus on? that is, what will help me learn quickly and improve my bottom line?

also, is there a standard method for evaluating my progress, like a spreadsheet, program (other than PT, which i have), or something like that?

thanks for the help, guys!

Almost every hand you play try to analyze it and try to see what you could have done to make the most chips out of it. This is very important in tournaments. You need to make as much chips from hands as you can. Also analyze hands where you busted. See what you could have done to avoid the situation. Learning when to fold AQ AK etc.. is also a good thing.

[ansky451]

To quote Greg Raymer, "Play the situation, not the hand."

One of the keys to understanding tournament situations, is being able to understand the type of situation you are in. There are some situations in which it really really doesnt matter what your cards are. I.E. folds to you on the button late in a tournament, you have 5 big blinds, you should push any 2 here given competent opponents in the blinds.

SITUATIONS ARE EVERYTHING.

MTTs differ most from NL ring in that the blinds and antes are always increasing. Learning to effectively manage stacks of all sizes is an important skill in tournaments, much moreso than in NL ring where you can always go back to your bankroll for more chips. Final table play is also a very important skill that differs a great deal from NL ring, so I'd say learning the aspects of short-handed play and how to adjust your strategy accordingly are another important aspect of playing in tournaments. Sit n' Go STTs are a good way to hone those skills since they most closely resemble final table play. I actually think the turbos are closer to emulating FTs since the blinds rise fast enough that they're usually a significant portion of your stack by the time you reach the money.

I'm guessing you may already know these things but figured I'd point them out just in case. You never know....

I think one of the most important (albeit rather obvious) skills to hone will be in knowing when to let go of a hand, i.e. your continuation bet is getting called down on each street. It's not like ring games, once your stack is gone, your done. I know that was the hardest part of my game to adjust starting out in tournament play. Some calling station (or even someone who flopped a monster) would not fold to my contination bet, and instead of raising me they'd just call. so next street I fire a bigger volley hoping to knock them off their drawing hand and they'd just call. You get the idea. Some times you just have to realize that the AK or pocket 10's etc... is no longer a good hand and give your opponent credit for having a hand and just check (read dependent of course)(also look out for the skilled players who will do this just for this reason)

[woodguy]

I have found that patience with the shortish stack is everything.

Like ansky says, you are looking for good situations, not always good cards.

I find you have huge folding equity with a 10BB -12BB stack over PF raisers, so when I get down to that stack level, I'm looking more for a chance to come over top of a PF raise all in, rather than just trying to find an open raise steal.

Its very easy for someone to re-raise you when you open raise for a steal, it is very difficult to call that raise without a premium holding (unless the PFR has a big stack and can take the hit) , exploit that gap.

I still have to thank Sossman, who opened my eyes when he said the biggest thing that he learned that propelled his MTT game was "to learn to re-raise PF with or without a hand"

Regards,
Woodguy

[ QUOTE ]
I find you have huge folding equity with a 10BB -12BB stack over PF raisers, so when I get down to that stack level, I'm looking more for a chance to come over top of a PF raise all in, rather than just trying to find an open raise steal.

Its very easy for someone to re-raise you when you open raise for a steal, it is very difficult to call that raise without a premium holding (unless the PFR has a big stack and can take the hit) , exploit that gap.

I still have to thank Sossman, who opened my eyes when he said the biggest thing that he learned that propelled his MTT game was "to learn to re-raise PF with or without a hand"

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for another great post, woodguy. The re-raise all in is a move I've been working on recently, with some success.

When you mention re-raising with or without a hand, are you talking about these same situations, or do you mean other than when you are short-stacked and just pushing over the top of raises? If you're talking about making aggressive re-raises generally, could you say a little bit more about it? Maybe it's because I play mostly with very predictable fish, but I've found that re-raising without a premium hand during the stages of a tournament where I can do so without pot committing myself is very costly, because they don't like to let go of whatever they thought was worth raising in the first place.

Thanks,
Foucault

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
When you mention re-raising with or without a hand, are you talking about these same situations, or do you mean other than when you are short-stacked and just pushing over the top of raises? If you're talking about making aggressive re-raises generally, could you say a little bit more about it? Maybe it's because I play mostly with very predictable fish, but I've found that re-raising without a premium hand during the stages of a tournament where I can do so without pot committing myself is very costly, because they don't like to let go of whatever they thought was worth raising in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Early on, I more or less play position and solid values.

The re-raise has more power when the PFR has something to lose, namely a good stack while ITM. (this also works on the bubble obviously)

Its the guys with 15-20BB's making an open raise that can't stand the heat of a 8-12BB push behind him. If he calls and loses, he has lost a big portion of a good stack (20BB's late is usually a nice stack), so he won't want to gamble without the goods.

This can work when you are not ITM, but the key to folding equity is having an opponent who has something to protect by folding, and is capable of folding.

Regards,
Woodguy

Woodguy,

This is something that I feel would drastically improve my game if I could master a move like this with any 2, would you say that given the parameters of stack sizes like you mentioned, that it would be better to do this against a loose aggressive opponent or a tight aggressive opponent? Obviously against a weak tighty who has been playing very little and suddenly raises preflop probably isn't a good canidate, but would you rather them be fairly loose, or fairly tight in this situation?

I'd think the loose player would be more likely to call with a wider range (would he?) while a tighter player would have tighter raising requirements and would be more likely to have one of the hands you wouldn't want to see (right or wrong?)

Thanks for posting that little insight woodguy, I love hearing new stuff to help my game out.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
better to do this against a loose aggressive opponent or a tight aggressive opponent? Obviously against a weak tighty who has been playing very little and suddenly raises preflop probably isn't a good canidate, but would you rather them be fairly loose, or fairly tight in this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends.

A key hand yesterday.

Laggy bigstack finally folds PF after raising about 10/11 times in a row, and the second big stack(on his immediate left) raises PF.

I almost folded, but then figured, his range is wide because this is the first chance he had to steal, so I pushed and he folded.

I almost doubled my stack with that one (with all the antes, and I was down to 7ish BB's)

Just pay attention to the table dynamic.

It is usually best to avoid going with air against a guy who hasn't raised since the 3rd level, but sometimes when they are that tight, they fold good hands too.

I just try to pay attention to who is doing the raising, and how often they raise PF when its folded to them.

It also doesn't hurt to have the blinds not wake up with a monster. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I've had this backfire more than once where I push, the blind comes overtop w/ AA-JJ/AK and my 86o gets crushed.

Cards happen.

Regards.,
Woodguy

[Sam T.]

[ QUOTE ]
given the parameters of stack sizes like you mentioned, that it would be better to do this against a loose aggressive opponent or a tight aggressive opponent?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you nailed the answer right here. The trick is to find an opponent who is LAG, but not a maniac. There are players who are constitutionally incapable of laying down a hand after they raise, and it would be bad to try this on them. ("Re-raise? Ha! I'll show you, beat 66!") Before I do this I have to have seen someone raise, and then fold to a reraise, or at the minimum, limp and then fold to a raise.

If they are TAG, I'm not going to mess with them. The chances are too good they have a calling hand.

Sam

Thanks wood and sam for your insights, that is one of the areas that I feel my game could use alot of work in, reraising all in over a raiser with a medium stack and being sucessful at it could take me from going into picking 2 cards to push area and putting me in taking 2 cards and bully area.

I can play the short stack fairly well, and the big stack I am ok with (not great, but certainly not terrible) and medium stack is one of those grey areas that I've been trying to figure out recently to hopefully make me a better all around tournament player.