To Chez . . .

[J. Stew]

Chez, you seem like you know yourself well, you said,

"behave in the way you believe is good."

I am trying to figure out how God and 'knowing of self' fit together. Morals, IMO, come from a knowing of yourself or who you are. If I think I'm something that I'm not, I'll go away from myself. This is like ego-inflating which to me is separate from my true/natural self. The self that lies behind the thinking self is what seems like true self to me and this non-thinking self is the self that knows or what 'believes is good' as you said. I was asking if you agree, or was asking to what you attribute this 'knowing' that knows what to do from moment to moment. Do you say that is God or do you say 'that's just what I believe' without attributing it to anything?

Jeff

[RJT]

Stew,

chez is atheist. He can answer the rest.

RJT

[J. Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Stew,

chez is atheist. He can answer the rest.

RJT

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, it sounds like he's a closet-believer in something! I'm not saying it's necessarily God. But where does the firmness of knowing come from? Chez sounds like he knows that he knows, so what is the knowing that he knows.

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stew,

chez is atheist. He can answer the rest.

RJT

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, it sounds like he's a closet-believer in something! I'm not saying it's necessarily God. But where does the firmness of knowing come from? Chez sounds like he knows that he knows, so what is the knowing that he knows.

[/ QUOTE ]Since I like to speak for other people. He thinks it comes from evolution. It's not that his knowing is firmly correct knowing, just that his knowing is frimly his knowing.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stew,

chez is atheist. He can answer the rest.

RJT

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, it sounds like he's a closet-believer in something! I'm not saying it's necessarily God. But where does the firmness of knowing come from? Chez sounds like he knows that he knows, so what is the knowing that he knows.

[/ QUOTE ]Since I like to speak for other people. He thinks it comes from evolution. It's not that his knowing is firmly correct knowing, just that his knowing is frimly his knowing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doug and Stew,

Perhaps Chez is having a few beers in one of those neat English Pubs. In the meantime if you read my post in the other thread (the one from which Stew continued the conversation to here) you will be updated for when he returns. Chez and I had started something like this conversation a while back and we dropped it as it was a tangent to that particular post.

I am not certain chez says totally from evolution, is why I interject now. Hopefully, he’ll have a slight buzz and he’ll have some wild and zany ideas we can bounce around.


RJT

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stew,

chez is atheist. He can answer the rest.

RJT

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, it sounds like he's a closet-believer in something! I'm not saying it's necessarily God. But where does the firmness of knowing come from? Chez sounds like he knows that he knows, so what is the knowing that he knows.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I doubt you will find many who believe in much less than me.

I have an experience of consciousness and assume we all do. I know almost nothing about how it works but its not possible to be mistaken about it.

e.g If I believe I'm in pain then I'm in pain

Thats about it, everthing else is inference from experience which is not a process that confers knowledge.

As RJT says, I'm an athiest. That's a matter of fact. I do not believe in god, I do not believe there is any reason to believe in god and I do not believe it is possible to prove god doesn't exist.


chez

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stew,

chez is atheist. He can answer the rest.

RJT

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, it sounds like he's a closet-believer in something! I'm not saying it's necessarily God. But where does the firmness of knowing come from? Chez sounds like he knows that he knows, so what is the knowing that he knows.

[/ QUOTE ]Since I like to speak for other people. He thinks it comes from evolution. It's not that his knowing is firmly correct knowing, just that his knowing is frimly his knowing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doug and Stew,

Perhaps Chez is having a few beers in one of those neat English Pubs. In the meantime if you read my post in the other thread (the one from which Stew continued the conversation to here) you will be updated for when he returns. Chez and I had started something like this conversation a while back and we dropped it as it was a tangent to that particular post.

I am not certain chez says totally from evolution, is why I interject now. Hopefully, he’ll have a slight buzz and he’ll have some wild and zany ideas we can bounce around.


RJT

[/ QUOTE ]

Time zone problem. Its 4am and I'm just about zonked out.

I've made a brief reply to Stew.

Goodnight all

chez

[J. Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stew,

chez is atheist. He can answer the rest.

RJT

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, it sounds like he's a closet-believer in something! I'm not saying it's necessarily God. But where does the firmness of knowing come from? Chez sounds like he knows that he knows, so what is the knowing that he knows.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I doubt you will find many who believe in much less than me.

I have an experience of consciousness and assume we all do. I know almost nothing about how it works but its not possible to be mistaken about it.

e.g If I believe I'm in pain then I'm in pain

Thats about it, everthing else is inference from experience which is not a process that confers knowledge.

As RJT says, I'm an athiest. That's a matter of fact. I do not believe in god, I do not believe there is any reason to believe in god and I do not believe it is possible to prove god doesn't exist.


chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, 'closet-BELIEVER' was the wrong word. I meant knower. You know that you know, but what is it that makes the knowing 'right' to you?

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stew,

chez is atheist. He can answer the rest.

RJT

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, it sounds like he's a closet-believer in something! I'm not saying it's necessarily God. But where does the firmness of knowing come from? Chez sounds like he knows that he knows, so what is the knowing that he knows.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I doubt you will find many who believe in much less than me.

I have an experience of consciousness and assume we all do. I know almost nothing about how it works but its not possible to be mistaken about it.

e.g If I believe I'm in pain then I'm in pain

Thats about it, everthing else is inference from experience which is not a process that confers knowledge.

As RJT says, I'm an athiest. That's a matter of fact. I do not believe in god, I do not believe there is any reason to believe in god and I do not believe it is possible to prove god doesn't exist.


chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, 'closet-BELIEVER' was the wrong word. I meant knower. You know that you know, but what is it that makes the knowing 'right' to you?

[/ QUOTE ]
blimey still awake, but this is it for now.

maybe I'm tired but I don't think I know what you mean.

Nothing makes knowing 'right' to me. I experience what I experience, there's no right or wrong about it.

maybe an example would help

chez

[J. Stew]

No, that makes sense, I assumed since you said 'do what you feel is right', in the thread that started this thread, that you acknowledged some type of knowing that can 'feel right'. I was asking what this knowing that can 'feel right' is. Isn't it like 8 am in England? Goodnight /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
No, that makes sense, I assumed since you said 'do what you feel is right', in the thread that started this thread, that you acknowledged some type of knowing that can 'feel right'. I was asking what this knowing that can 'feel right' is. Isn't it like 8 am in England? Goodnight /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry for the lack of clarity.

its not 'right' in the sense of correct/incorrect. I think we've cleared that up.

its about 'right' in the sense of good/bad.

Some of the thing I experience are beliefs about the rightness of actions and situations. (I assume most of us are similar).

Even if I was wrong to believe that some action is good, I could do no better than to follow the course I believe is good.

Chezlaw's wager follows and works like Smith's:

No just god could ask more then we do our best and there's no point worrying about an unjust god.

If there's no god then it didn't cost us much to do what we believed was good. (There are strong argument for behaving this way even if god doesn't exist).

chez