numeri
11-07-2005, 08:35 PM
This was a great discussion from a hand I played. Deception was reviewing it for my session review, and he had some great comments. I wanted to share them with you.
Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero...?</font>
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<font color="blue">His original comment:</font>
I typically would raise any ace on the button. You'll often take this down with a followup flop bet.
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<font color="blue">My response:</font>
My general question here is what to do against aggressive opponents. I get totally run over by really aggressive players. I call down in bad situations and get overly aggressive with the worst of it. It's a definite weakness. Any suggestions on a general plan of action. Like if we raise with Axo on the button vs. an aggressive BB, what types of flops are we looking for? Do you have a plan before you start? I don't, and that's why I think I've been avoiding those situations. Especially early on at the table.
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<font color="blue">His response:</font>
Early at the table I give a lot of credit to bets and raises, but I then make a mental note to watch that player. It only costs me 2-3 SB to raise (potentially calling a reraise) and then fold the flop - much more expensive to call down and find out that this was a legimate hand (6-7). Obviously if he keeps trying to push me off hands I'm going to have to start punishing. But there's a good chance I'll get a better read before it happens again and be able to play accordingly.
My general strategy is to raise with any ace on the button, unless both blinds are extremely loose in which case I might open limp (HEPFAP pg 197).
A good flop for us that doesn't hit our hand is generally a ragged flop. 222 is awesome, 442 is a great flop, 468 is decent. JJT is not really very good as it connects with too many hands (either by making pairs or by making good draws). K83r is a very good board because with one card in the "strike zone", no draws possible (not even gutshots), and only one possible overcard, a bet will give us a lot of information. We'd really prefer not to have any cards 9-K and if there are 2 cards in that range I'm generally looking to bail depending on my opinion of the opponent (I may bet if they check/fold a lot but if they call I'm done with the hand). If I know they aren't folding but will keep betting it's an easy fold.
In some ways it's easier to play against a tag as we have a reasonable idea of their range and we also know they are capable of laying down hands. If the board is ragged, sometimes instead of calling down, a turn raise makes sense as it may get a better ace to fold and costs the same as calling down. Obviously if they call the raise or 3-bet we're not putting in any more money. We know a lot of these players are bet/fold capable so once in a while I like to test them. With AK calling down is clearly better.
Depending upon the level of aggression in our opponent, sometimes it's correct to just call down with ace high. If the opponent bets every street regardless, we'll very often have the best hand at showdown as there's a good chance the board didn't hit him either. This is particularly true with very loose and very aggressive players (generally better players won't bluff all 3 streets). Remember ace high has a great deal of showdown value against a maniac - much better to have that at showdown unimproved than QJs or even KQs (remember there's a good chance of splitting with other low aces too - so even A2 is much better than KQ unimproved).
As far as not getting your money in with the worst hand, even if the opponent is very aggressive it's usually better to just calldown with AK than to try and get more money out of them. Your hand is very vulnerable and the opponent is going to usually punish you with a pair and go passive without. Unless your opponent is an absolute nut you're often pushing hard when your opponent is ahead. Wait till you hit something decent and punish them - and you get the opportunity to do that a lot at 6-max.
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<font color="blue">My response:</font>
Can I post this on 2+2? This is seriously great stuff. I think a lot of people would appreciate this.
Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero...?</font>
======================
<font color="blue">His original comment:</font>
I typically would raise any ace on the button. You'll often take this down with a followup flop bet.
======================
<font color="blue">My response:</font>
My general question here is what to do against aggressive opponents. I get totally run over by really aggressive players. I call down in bad situations and get overly aggressive with the worst of it. It's a definite weakness. Any suggestions on a general plan of action. Like if we raise with Axo on the button vs. an aggressive BB, what types of flops are we looking for? Do you have a plan before you start? I don't, and that's why I think I've been avoiding those situations. Especially early on at the table.
======================
<font color="blue">His response:</font>
Early at the table I give a lot of credit to bets and raises, but I then make a mental note to watch that player. It only costs me 2-3 SB to raise (potentially calling a reraise) and then fold the flop - much more expensive to call down and find out that this was a legimate hand (6-7). Obviously if he keeps trying to push me off hands I'm going to have to start punishing. But there's a good chance I'll get a better read before it happens again and be able to play accordingly.
My general strategy is to raise with any ace on the button, unless both blinds are extremely loose in which case I might open limp (HEPFAP pg 197).
A good flop for us that doesn't hit our hand is generally a ragged flop. 222 is awesome, 442 is a great flop, 468 is decent. JJT is not really very good as it connects with too many hands (either by making pairs or by making good draws). K83r is a very good board because with one card in the "strike zone", no draws possible (not even gutshots), and only one possible overcard, a bet will give us a lot of information. We'd really prefer not to have any cards 9-K and if there are 2 cards in that range I'm generally looking to bail depending on my opinion of the opponent (I may bet if they check/fold a lot but if they call I'm done with the hand). If I know they aren't folding but will keep betting it's an easy fold.
In some ways it's easier to play against a tag as we have a reasonable idea of their range and we also know they are capable of laying down hands. If the board is ragged, sometimes instead of calling down, a turn raise makes sense as it may get a better ace to fold and costs the same as calling down. Obviously if they call the raise or 3-bet we're not putting in any more money. We know a lot of these players are bet/fold capable so once in a while I like to test them. With AK calling down is clearly better.
Depending upon the level of aggression in our opponent, sometimes it's correct to just call down with ace high. If the opponent bets every street regardless, we'll very often have the best hand at showdown as there's a good chance the board didn't hit him either. This is particularly true with very loose and very aggressive players (generally better players won't bluff all 3 streets). Remember ace high has a great deal of showdown value against a maniac - much better to have that at showdown unimproved than QJs or even KQs (remember there's a good chance of splitting with other low aces too - so even A2 is much better than KQ unimproved).
As far as not getting your money in with the worst hand, even if the opponent is very aggressive it's usually better to just calldown with AK than to try and get more money out of them. Your hand is very vulnerable and the opponent is going to usually punish you with a pair and go passive without. Unless your opponent is an absolute nut you're often pushing hard when your opponent is ahead. Wait till you hit something decent and punish them - and you get the opportunity to do that a lot at 6-max.
======================
<font color="blue">My response:</font>
Can I post this on 2+2? This is seriously great stuff. I think a lot of people would appreciate this.