Could you get away from this hand?

$1,000 max buy-in, NL, weak table, live game, Indian Casino...lots of "kids" buying in for their only $500 to $600 in the world, 5-10 blinds, most players are very readable.

Hero in small blind with 33.

Under the gun (Villian) is very tight and predictable. Hasn't done anything terribly wrong or right for the past 3 hours.

Villian makes is 55 under the gun and 5 people call. I call knowing full well that Villian has one of two hands, KK or AA.

Pot Approx $350.00

Flop comes 3, Q, J.

I lead for $125 and Villian goes all in for $725 more... everyone folds to me.

I insta-call and ask if he has Aces or Kings.

Your thoughts.

[yvesaint]

[ QUOTE ]
I call knowing full well that Villian has one of two hands, KK or AA.

Flop comes 3, Q, J.



[/ QUOTE ]

no A .... no K ...... no im not looking to get away from this hand

[flawless_victory]

ok, seriously. ban.
fvcking ban this guy.

[thabadguy]

Wheres that azk searchlight when u need it!!!!!

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
ok, seriously. ban.
fvcking ban this guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I vote flawless victory for mod#2

[blendedsuit]

so ewven if he had QQ? you're the man dude,

[ QUOTE ]
ok, seriously. ban.
fvcking ban this guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? I thinking I'm getting the right odds to hit my set here.

[yvesaint]

[ QUOTE ]

Why? I thinking I'm getting the right odds to hit my set here.

[/ QUOTE ]

no duh, you hit it, got your money in on a guy with AA/KK

any questions?

[ QUOTE ]
so ewven if he had QQ? you're the man dude,

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly... turns out he had JJ and was planning to fold the flop with all those callers no-matter what (again, he was weak tight)... but he just couldn't imagine me leading with a set of queens here so decided he was good and pushed all in to chase out other draws 9/10 K/10 whatever.

Maybe it was the wrong play pre-flop... but I feel that part of developing my game is getting a read and going with it. If I'm wrong... live, learn, and move on.

[chuddo]

[ QUOTE ]
ok, seriously. ban.
fvcking ban this guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ok, seriously. ban.
fvcking ban this guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright... sorry about the question... I guess you're banned from thinking or questioning on this forum if you don't play super-aggressive 6 handed party poker and haven't taken the time to download a hand converter.

I'm sorry if I've wasted your precious viewing time.

Jesus christ... and I thought the political forum was bad.

[yvesaint]

[ QUOTE ]
and haven't taken the time to download a hand converter.


[/ QUOTE ]

....lol

[Big_Jim]

Bicycles... what do you expect people to tell you about this hand?

You flopped a set against a guy who you:
[ QUOTE ]
[Know full well has] one of two hands, KK or AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

And there is no A or K on board, and he moves in on you. What do you expect people to say?

Clearly, your hand range for him is too tight, probably WAY too tight. You didn't think he'd raise PF with AKs? QQ? Obviously JJ is in his range (as we can now see).

If you thought that he was willing to go to the felt with AA/KK here, your play is still correct, even if you open his range to AA-JJ, AKs.

Everybody is mad at you because you are posting hands that are just about as basic as they come, and have absolutely no analysis required.

How would you react if I posted a hand like:
UTG moves all in for 100BBs folded to me in the BB with AA, Hero...?

or

I have AK and raise PF, SB calls. Flop comes K42 and he moves in. I KNOW HE IS BLUFFING, Hero...?

[lapoker17]

[ QUOTE ]
How would you react if I posted a hand like:
UTG moves all in for 100BBs folded to me in the BB with AA, Hero

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's already asked this one.

Big_Jim...

I appreciate the legitimate reply...

I guess my real question is whether or not you guys change your "read" mid-stride during a hand.

I try not to change my read because then I start 2nd guessing myself and play indecisive-weak-tight poker.

Should I have re-evaluated here when the guy goes all in for twice the size of the pot?

Doesn't this look like a AA or KK protect type bet?

[ QUOTE ]

Everybody is mad at you because you are posting hands that are just about as basic as they come, and have absolutely no analysis required.



[/ QUOTE ]

I think EVERY hand requires some analyzation... it's this mentality and arrogance alone that allows players like us to make so much money.

When someone actually gets pissed off over an "easy post" I love it. These are the same people that re-raise me when I bet my trips straight out.

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess my real question is whether or not you guys change your "read" mid-stride during a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Given overwhelming evidence to the contrary of my read... yes.

[ QUOTE ]
Should I have re-evaluated here when the guy goes all in for twice the size of the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]
Probably, it's a pretty big bet. However...

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't this look like a AA or KK protect type bet?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it does. Only you can know whether or not he is truly weak-tight enough to only make this play with a set. Many players who fit the description of villian here will go buck wild when they have AA/KK.

Even if villian makes this play with only AA, QQ/JJ here, your call was still fine. Add KK in the mix, and it's a no brainer.

Thank you.

[thabadguy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think EVERY hand requires some analyzation

[/ QUOTE ]
k

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
I think EVERY hand requires some analyzation...

[/ QUOTE ]
No. Given the read of villian that you provided, this hand requires 0 analysis.

[ QUOTE ]
it's this mentality and arrogance alone that allows players like us to make so much money.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not being arrogant, it's just the plain, obvious truth.

[ QUOTE ]
When someone actually gets pissed off over an "easy post" I love it.

[/ QUOTE ]
You must really love this post, then.

[ QUOTE ]
These are the same people that re-raise me when I bet my trips straight out.

[/ QUOTE ]
I see no correllation between the two.

These are the people who tell you to bet your trips out, and call the all-in.

What I'm trying to say Big_Jim is that when people get fustrated about posters not knowing the "obvious" play on a certain hand... I love it.

This is a great mentality for limit play (where this is almost always a correct play) but, for no limit play... you can argue the same point for hours.

The correlation on the previous post is that NO-ONE these days thinks that you are betting trips if the board comes something like Q-Q-7 and you lead out.

These players that get in the rut of always thinking they know the "correct and obvious" play are the ones that re-raise this board to represent a Q because "there is no way you bet out here with trips"...

I know it's a stretch... but I'm amused by people who come to a forum to talk about poker and then get offended that people want to talk about poker.

It leads me to believe these players will get cocky, stagnet, whatever you want to call it... and not improve their game.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess my real question is whether or not you guys change your "read" mid-stride during a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Given overwhelming evidence to the contrary of my read... yes.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I think EVERY hand requires some analyzation...

[/ QUOTE ]


No. Given the read of villian that you provided, this hand requires 0 analysis.[ QUOTE ]



How do these two quote work together Big_jim...

No we don't have to analyze every hand...

But yes we need to be willing to change our read if we re-analyze the hand.

I'm not trying to be an azz... and i appreciate the feedback... but I'm getting a little lost.

[neon]

Hey man,

FWIW, in my experience, when a tightish player who raises rather infrequently preflop makes it 5.5 BB from EP, this is JJ or perhaps TT or QQ *far* more often than it is AA or KK. Not to say that this is steadfast or anything, but you'd be amazed how often a slightly to significantly larger-than-average open is pocket jacks in particular, especially from a certain type of player. Just something to keep in mind when formulating your reads in the future.

Oh, and as for the hand, I fold sets w/ 100BB stacks, like, never.

[yvesaint]

[ QUOTE ]

The correlation on the previous post is that NO-ONE these days thinks that you are betting trips if the board comes something like Q-Q-7 and you lead out.

These players that get in the rut of always thinking they know the "correct and obvious" play are the ones that re-raise this board to represent a Q because "there is no way you bet out here with trips"...


[/ QUOTE ]

what are you talking about, this is completely different from your original post

betting out with trips is good, but theres different situations for it

your hand was "i know he has AA/KK" (you said this EXPLICITLY in your original post) and you flopped a set with no A or K on the board

what exactly do you want to talk about? obviously your read is off, but even so, if he does this with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, youre still good enough to get it in

its not like you had stacks of $5000 and he re-raised all-in

you had 100 BB stacks, and you hit your money card

this really has no correlation to betting out/not betting out with trips. thats situational. NO ONE bets out with trips? i personally bet out with trips all the time

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess my real question is whether or not you guys change your "read" mid-stride during a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Given overwhelming evidence to the contrary of my read... yes.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I think EVERY hand requires some analyzation...

[/ QUOTE ]


No. Given the read of villian that you provided, this hand requires 0 analysis.

[/ QUOTE ]


How do these two quote work together Big_jim...

No we don't have to analyze every hand...

But yes we need to be willing to change our read if we re-analyze the hand.

I'm not trying to be an azz... and i appreciate the feedback... but I'm getting a little lost.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

In this hand, no such evidence exists.

[Chaostracize]

This made me laugh LOUDLY.

[ QUOTE ]
This made me laugh LOUDLY.

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate the legitimate feed back I did get.

I think some of you get what I was hitting at here... and some of you are playing a different sport.

END POST>

[Chaostracize]

This should be posted in OOT. There is no poker content in this thread.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
I insta-call and ask if he has Aces or Kings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not just turn hand over and not say anything?

from the description you give it is possibly to get away from it. you really think he wouldn't make a raise like that with queens? and in this case jacks? you don't always have to stick with your initial read.

why is everybody being such a douche about this thread? since when did discussing poker warrent a ban?

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
from the description you give it is possibly to get away from it. you really think he wouldn't make a raise like that with queens? and in this case jacks? you don't always have to stick with your initial read.

why is everybody being such a douche about this thread? since when did discussing poker warrent a ban?

[/ QUOTE ]

OMFG BAN BANBA NBABNABNABNABNABNANBANBNBANBNAN

AZK?!?!

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I insta-call and ask if he has Aces or Kings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not just turn hand over and not say anything?

[/ QUOTE ]OP wears sunglasses

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
from the description you give it is possibly to get away from it. you really think he wouldn't make a raise like that with queens? and in this case jacks? you don't always have to stick with your initial read.

why is everybody being such a douche about this thread? since when did discussing poker warrent a ban?

[/ QUOTE ]b/c this thread is retarded....this isn't discussing poker, he was faced with one raise and had 3rd nuts vs likely AA or KK

he put the super tight villain on AA or KK when he could have expanded the hands he could have had to QQ or even JJ, especially with the given flop and action. i dont really see what is so terrible about the OP. he stuck with his intial read when he could have changed it midway through the hand after some thought. he posted in this forum to ask if there was any way he could have gotten away from it and the answer is not a clear-cut no.

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
the answer is not a clear-cut no.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it is.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I insta-call and ask if he has Aces or Kings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not just turn hand over and not say anything?

[/ QUOTE ]OP wears sunglasses

[/ QUOTE ]

Figures

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I insta-call and ask if he has Aces or Kings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not just turn hand over and not say anything?

[/ QUOTE ]OP wears sunglasses

[/ QUOTE ]

Figures

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't even own sun-glasses... i do however treat my ipod better than any girl I've ever dated.