Potential Trouble with AQ

[EasyGoer]

40-80 B&M.

I have AQ (off) UTG+2. My image is deservedly tight. I raise. 1 fold. So-So player 3 bets, several fold to the BB (relatively new player to the table who I have not played with before but has already mentioned 2+2 to me)calls 2 more cold. I call.

3 of us see a Q high flop with two small cards and multi-suits. I check, PFR raises, BB re-raises, what's my play on the flop and for the rest of the hand assuming no more "trouble" cards hit?

[mplspoker]

call.. check/raise any turn card.

3 of us see a Q high flop with two small cards and multi-suits. I check, PFR raises, BB re-raises, what's my play on the flop and for the rest of the hand assuming no more "trouble" cards hit?



he "raises"? you mean he bets? if he raised, which would mean you bet, then my response is different...you said you checked, but then you said PFR raises, which is it, bet or raise?



Tex

[EasyGoer]

I checked the flop,the PFR bet, then the BB raised. Sorry for the confusion in the original post.

PFR is going to bet virtually any pair here, and sometimes AK, and the blind could have K-Q, Q-J, Q-10...lots of hands. I'd probably either cap it, or donk a turn that isn't a J, 10, or K. But i wouldnt be in this spot, because i would have led the flop.....

With top pair top kicker in a decent sized pot, you should not be checking to the raiser when hes directly on your left, you should take control right away and bet into the raiser. Now given the way you played your hand lets figure out what you should do: first recognize that you almost certainly have the BB beat, if he had AA or KK or QQ preflop he wouldve capped it, and if he had a set he wouldnt be trying to push you out of the pot if he plays decently, The BB's most likely hands are JJ's or a lower pocket pair or Qx, you beat all these holdings and tie AQ. Also lets assume the late position raiser will 3 bet you with TT and above and AK and he will bet the flop if checked to everytime. Lets also assume that there was no Ten or Jack on the flop. Given this range you are a 12-5 favorite to have a better hand than the preflop 3 bettor. So you almost certainly have a better hand than the BB and you are a 12-5 favorite to have a better hand than the Preflop raiser, so what should you do on the flop after the raiser bets and the BB checkraises? You should 3 bet for value!!

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
With top pair top kicker in a decent sized pot, you should not be checking to the raiser when hes directly on your left, you should take control right away and bet into the raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? You have TPTK and button will bet a lot on this flop. Is it wrong to go for value here. Unless u plan on b-3b, then i prefer c/r. I don't like b-3b here though unless button is v. aggro.

[ QUOTE ]

Now given the way you played your hand lets figure out what you should do: first recognize that you almost certainly have the BB beat, if he had AA or KK or QQ preflop he wouldve capped it, and if he had a set he wouldnt be trying to push you out of the pot if he plays decently, The BB's most likely hands are JJ's or a lower pocket pair or Qx, you beat all these holdings and tie AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree.

[ QUOTE ]
Also lets assume the late position raiser will 3 bet you with TT and above and AK and he will bet the flop if checked to everytime. Lets also assume that there was no Ten or Jack on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]


OK.

[ QUOTE ]

Given this range you are a 12-5 favorite to have a better hand than the preflop 3 bettor.

[/ QUOTE ]


(12 Combos AK + 6 Combos JJ + 6 Combos 1010): (3 Combos QQ + 6 Combos AA + 6 Combos KK) = 24:15 = 9:5. Correct? I assume u listed 16 Combos of AK

[ QUOTE ]
So you almost certainly have a better hand than the BB and you are a 12-5 favorite to have a better hand than the Preflop raiser, so what should you do on the flop after the raiser bets and the BB checkraises? You should 3 bet for value!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not disagreeing here to your action, but there is more to it then this, IMO. What if LP folds to two bets and calls one incorrectly getting a weighted 2.5 outs on a 14:1 call. (Weighted to 2.5 for the 12 combos of AK at 3 outs to the 12 Combos of JJ/1010 at 2 outs). He has slightly less outs when u expand his range to include 99/88 as many would 3B PF.

You also need to consider BB's action. Will he call the extra sb or fold to the three bet realizing his mid pp is no good. Probably not, so u do gain the extra sb there which will lean this toward a 3B.

Finally, LP will likely be capping better hands or raising the turn with them so this is another factor. If u just call the flop, u get a better idea on LPs hand by his response. The math starts to get real complicated here.

Please correct anything that is wrong/ unsound here.

[EasyGoer]

I called "two cold" on the flop. PFR called one more.

The turn and river were "safe" cards and the BB bet twice and I called twice (PFR mucked on the turn).

BB turned over JJ and my AQ was good.

In retropsect I played this hand horribly. As usual the best play was to be aggressive and come out betting on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With top pair top kicker in a decent sized pot, you should not be checking to the raiser when hes directly on your left, you should take control right away and bet into the raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? You have TPTK and button will bet a lot on this flop. Is it wrong to go for value here. Unless u plan on b-3b, then i prefer c/r. I don't like b-3b here though unless button is v. aggro.

[ QUOTE ]

Now given the way you played your hand lets figure out what you should do: first recognize that you almost certainly have the BB beat, if he had AA or KK or QQ preflop he wouldve capped it, and if he had a set he wouldnt be trying to push you out of the pot if he plays decently, The BB's most likely hands are JJ's or a lower pocket pair or Qx, you beat all these holdings and tie AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree.

[ QUOTE ]
Also lets assume the late position raiser will 3 bet you with TT and above and AK and he will bet the flop if checked to everytime. Lets also assume that there was no Ten or Jack on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]


OK.

[ QUOTE ]

Given this range you are a 12-5 favorite to have a better hand than the preflop 3 bettor.

[/ QUOTE ]


(12 Combos AK + 6 Combos JJ + 6 Combos 1010): (3 Combos QQ + 6 Combos AA + 6 Combos KK) = 24:15 = 9:5. Correct? I assume u listed 16 Combos of AK

[ QUOTE ]
So you almost certainly have a better hand than the BB and you are a 12-5 favorite to have a better hand than the Preflop raiser, so what should you do on the flop after the raiser bets and the BB checkraises? You should 3 bet for value!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not disagreeing here to your action, but there is more to it then this, IMO. What if LP folds to two bets and calls one incorrectly getting a weighted 2.5 outs on a 14:1 call. (Weighted to 2.5 for the 12 combos of AK at 3 outs to the 12 Combos of JJ/1010 at 2 outs). He has slightly less outs when u expand his range to include 99/88 as many would 3B PF.

You also need to consider BB's action. Will he call the extra sb or fold to the three bet realizing his mid pp is no good. Probably not, so u do gain the extra sb there which will lean this toward a 3B.

Finally, LP will likely be capping better hands or raising the turn with them so this is another factor. If u just call the flop, u get a better idea on LPs hand by his response. The math starts to get real complicated here.

Please correct anything that is wrong/ unsound here.

[/ QUOTE ]
The hero needs to bet into the raiser in hopes that the raiser will raise and eliminate the other player, this is more important than going for the checkraise and building the pot in my opinion. You did the math wrong, the hero is a 12-5 favorite over the range I gave. (12AK combos + 6 JJ combos + 6 TT combos):(1 QQ combo + 3 AA combos + 6KK combos) About what you said, I understand that the villain will reraise with a better hand and fold worse hands, this is why it is better to bet into the raiser since we may induce him to raise a worse hand like JJ or AK, but the real reason the hero must bet into the raiser is to try to get the raiser to rais out the BB and make this pot a 2 player contest. In this large pot is it critical that the hero try to make this a two player confrontation and thats why betting into the raiser is best.