$22 Q,Q early on

[Olback]

Does anyone push here?

Villian was weak, but not a maniac

#Game No : 2995537798
***** Hand History for Game 2995537798 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:17207903 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Monday, November 07, 02:43:25 EDT 2005
Table Table 66654 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: BuckeyeKings ( $225 )
Seat 4: subgun ( $765 )
Seat 5: MrBillsDog ( $200 )
Seat 7: HawaiiKat ( $600 )
Seat 1: JumpyJJ ( $2185 )
Seat 6: richter_4 ( $1015 )
Seat 3: Vjackhole ( $420 )
Seat 8: bavaba ( $965 )
Seat 10: Olback17 ( $715 )
Seat 9: notsocommon ( $910 )
Trny:17207903 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Olback17 [ Qc Qs ]
MrBillsDog folds.
richter_4 calls [30].
HawaiiKat folds.
bavaba folds.
notsocommon raises [95].
>You have options at Table 66886 Table!.
Olback17 raises [250].
JumpyJJ folds.
BuckeyeKings folds.
Vjackhole folds.
subgun folds.
richter_4 folds.
notsocommon calls [155].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kd, 4c, 9h ]
>You have options at Table 66886 Table!.
notsocommon checks.

Olback17 ???

[TheNoodleMan]

If you are going to push a K high flop, why not just push prefop? The only hands that you could have been worried about preflop are AA, KK and AK all of which have you hurting badly after this flop. You aren't getting him to fold a better hand here, so pushing has very little utility.
If you are determined to get it all in good or bad, I think you are better off betting a weak 150-200 to try to induce a bluff.

[HesseJam]

I was also guilty of pushing here sometimes. The poster above seems right, however. Usually, I put in something like a cont. bet. I can't fold a better hand but I will not be raised out of the pot either. Does the trick most of the time.

I tend to be weak and just call this raise with my QQ preflop, but being aggresive is fine.

I would definately not push this flop. It doesn't achieve anything except for you to lose money. If you are ahead, he is only really drawing to 2/3 outs, any bet and you are pot commited. I would see what he does on the turn, I'ld probably call 200 max but if he bets again on the river I would fold.

[tigerite]

Nah, QQ is a re-raise preflop for sure.

[pergesu]

I shove over the top preflop. You put in over 1/3 of your stack with the raise, and you're going to get called by a lot of hands you beat (AQ+, 77+, sometimes ATs+), so get your money in as a favorite.

I definitely check behind on this flop. If he bets the turn it's probably going to be AK or JJ/TT...I call a reasonable turn bet. At this point PPs will shut down unless they've made sets, so you can safely fold to all but the smallest river bets (though I would expect to get checked to most of the time, in which case I make a small value bet).

edit: If he checks to you again on the turn, bet there and bet the river if called.

[ilya]

I actually lean towards pushing. If you check behind on the flop, you will not be able to get away from your hand later given that the pot is bigger than you stack & that you will have shown weakness. JJ/TT will likely call you. 88-66 may call also, but you are likely to lose them if another over comes on the turn. A hand like AQ will likely fold but that's fine, the pot is huge. You'd much rather take it down than give Ax a free card.

It's also ok if a lower pair folds. The pot is enormous. If he's tight-passive and will not put money in with an underpair unless he improves, all you're doing is giving him a free card to beat you. If he will bet an underpair, you're either still losing your whole stack to AK, or often folding the best hand in a huge pot.

So I guess the only time I like checking is when you plan to fold to a later bet & *know* that he is tight-passive.

[Olback]

I only pushed the K high flop becuase he checked the flop. If he had bet out I probabrly would have folded.

[Olback]

Won't putting in such a huge preflop reraise scare people away?

Or are they just as likely to call an allin as my raise?

[TheNoodleMan]

I don't like it.
The reasons to push are:
1) to get a better hand to fold. There is no way that is going to happen here.
2) to protect your hand against a strong draw. If you are ahead here, your oppenent is drawing to 5 outs at best. A smaller bet accomplishes the same effect while still possibly inducing a bluff.
3) for value. I doubt that you are getting paid off by a worse hand if you push here, but donks have taught me never to be too shocked at what they are likely to do.

Your hand meets none of these criteria. All you accomplish by pushing is making sure that you either win the pot at its current size or get called by a better hand and go broke.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
Won't putting in such a huge preflop reraise scare people away?

Or are they just as likely to call an allin as my raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sometimes they'll fold JJ, but it's not all that likely really. But let's say someone has JJ-88 and made that raise...a lot of the time there's going to be one or more overcards on the flop, and they'll be scared off anyway. They'll probably be more willing to gamble preflop than if the board comes overcards.

Also, if you don't want to push preflop because it might scare them off, why would you want to push the flop? You think you can push AK off his hand (I'm doubting it /images/graemlins/wink.gif)? If he's got a mid PP, then pushing isn't going to get a call from him...checking behind and betting (maybe even pushing) the turn often will.